Couple of decades ago? How old do you think I am? Jeese I'm 33. Of course you obviously need a degree to do many things doctor lawyer etc. but if you're bad at it you ain't going to make it, degree or no. Without a degree you have to rise to the top and the climb is tougher at first but in the end you can still do it. Not to say I would recommend it. Yes I'd prefer to have a degree and I'd encourage anyone to get one but I find that most people with degrees make squat. Not because they are dumb or because of the degree itself but because they just flat out aren't good at what they do. Usually that's associated with not careing about the job you are doing. If you ain't getting paid squat then you need to wonder is it because the job you picked or because you stink at it?

Find something you like to do and do it well and the $ will come.

 

Let's talk about the norm, not special cases.

In America on average, those with degrees earn higher pay than those that don't. pretty simple

 

From quick google search.....



The report titled "The Big Payoff: Educational Attainment and Synthetic Estimates of Work-Life Earnings" (.pdf) reveals that over an adult's working life, high school graduates can expect, on average, to earn $1.2 million; those with a bachelor's degree, $2.1 million; and people with a master's degree, $2.5 million.

Persons with doctoral degrees earn an average of $3.4 million during their working life, while those with professional degrees do best at $4.4 million.

 

Job performance is another issue. My point is that those without a degree these days can't even get their foot in the door with most companies out there.

When I review resumes, I don't even consider those without a college degree no matter how much experience they may claim to have.

 

Smart companies go with people with proven success records. 20% of our work force has a Phd. another 40% have Masters and everyone else but me has a undergrad. Even most of our Admins have an undergrad. They hired me because I worked for the #1 competator and was known as the best in the industry, the first company hired me because their employee said this is the guy that I learned from and he's better than me, hire him. Amazingly good companies look beyond a stupid peice of worthless paper because they have the wisdom to know that it doesn't matter. FYI: I've seen more PhDs fired than I currently work with. Most just can't deal with the real world, they have no idea how to apply their knowledge and lack common sense so they get canned within 3 - 6 months. All those fired have typically done two things, treated others like they are a lesser life form, tucked their tails between their legs and asked me for help (of course by that time they are too late to stop the axe). All the successful ones do the exact same thing, ask others for help and I'm usually the first they come to.

 

[QUOTE=exceltoexcel,Jun 1 2006, 07:26 PM] Smart companies go with people with proven success records.

 

Success records can be exaggerated, even completely falsified. I've met people who claim to be a manager of a 20-person team responsible for operations of a multi-million dollar revenue generating website but when I call for a reference check, I come to learn that he was just a low level content entry person.

One thing that you cannot lie about is a college degree. You either have it or you don't. A college degree can open doors otherwise shut to those that do not have one. All things being equal, I whether hire the guy with a college degree than the guy without one.

excel, I hope you realize that you are the exception, not the rule. In the real world, people that do not have college degrees aren't as successful as those that have one.

 

I did say I would recommend it, however my point is that even without one you can make it work for you. Again I would always suggest getting one, but just because you don't doesn't mean you can't make it, nor does having one mean you will. I think it depends more on rather or not you like what you do, do it well and keep doin what you do. I'm not argueing for one second that it makes it easier but typically great employers don't really look at a degree and put all that much to it. I actually look at employment history first. I give a thumbs down to anyone that tends to work at a company for two years and then moves on and moves on and moves on. Usually means they have no clue what they are doing. Either they are bad at it or don't like it. If your looking for junior staff I want someone fresh out of college or comes across as passionate and they better have a well written resume. Now if you've followed any of my posts you'll easily see that grammar isn't my strong suit. My resume is flawless, grab the funk and white and poor over it until its perfect and then have someone else look at it. When I see someone with a resume with grammar errors, you know they aren't quality, detail orientated people who will care about their job. Oh yeah the 4 page resume with a million publications etc.. Is a big red flag too.

I agree you have to have a verifiable success record. That being said with an employment history like I have I probably could lie about having a degree (Most people in the company thought I had a PhD =) yeah that's an ego boost!) I actually love the expresions when I tell them I went to linganore. "Where's that" "oh fredrick county MD" "What was your major?" "High school" Jaw drop. Then I usually get the oh my wow! Then I have to try to avoid the subject with clients which blows =( I'd be happier at those moments if I had one. So yeah it can be a ball and chain.

I really need to go but a degree from devry somehow seems even worse than none at all =(

As to Mavs comment I understand why te thought is there.

Might you reconsider if you heard accolades about a canadate from many co-workers that you respect?

I actually almost became a jr. mechanical engineer when I worked in the telecom industry because when I worked on the line I would take ECR to the lead engineer of the product and work with him on CAD way way back in the mid 90's. He always said I was too smart to not have a degree and fought to get me in. I don't think that i'm the smartest guy out there I just love solving problems, I care, and I'm persistant.

Sorry about the rant/boosting. Yes get a degree but if you don't have one don't let it keep you from trying to get to the top. I still have a lot of goals to accomplish, barriers to break, but that is the fun part.

I'm not argueing with anything said here just stating that it's possible if you try.

 

Hum anyone have any suggestions about on-line schools and the such?

I'd love to get this monkey off my back.

 

[QUOTE=mav,Jun 1 2006, 02:58 AM] Some people are just stuck renting.