why do people create their own financial misery?
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 112,963
Likes: 150
From: Doh!!
Originally Posted by C_Unit,Jun 29 2006, 09:37 AM
...
we have this uniquely American negative attitude towards the less affluent in our country. we blame their misfortune on the people themselves, we justify their poverty by saying they're lazy and stupid. when really, poverty is a much bigger issue than just a few people being lazy or being stupid. we've been told all our lives that this is "the Land of Opportunity" and that every child born in the US has just as much opportunity as the next, regardless of who the child is born to. Anyone who works hard enough can be rich and live the American dream.... but that's just NOT true. the truth is that if you're born poor, you will more than likely die poor.... regardless of whether you sit on your porch all day or work your ass off.
scot you made a remark in one of your posts about the section 8 people's kids... you said "these kids don't stand a chance." but just think that those section 8 people were also babies themselves once and their parents were probably shitty parents too and their parent's parent's were probably shitty parents and their parent's parent's parent's were probably shitty parents. these people don't stand a chance, they're born into this misery, their children will be born into misery and their children's children will be born into misery. you're right, none of them stand a chance.
...
we have this uniquely American negative attitude towards the less affluent in our country. we blame their misfortune on the people themselves, we justify their poverty by saying they're lazy and stupid. when really, poverty is a much bigger issue than just a few people being lazy or being stupid. we've been told all our lives that this is "the Land of Opportunity" and that every child born in the US has just as much opportunity as the next, regardless of who the child is born to. Anyone who works hard enough can be rich and live the American dream.... but that's just NOT true. the truth is that if you're born poor, you will more than likely die poor.... regardless of whether you sit on your porch all day or work your ass off.
scot you made a remark in one of your posts about the section 8 people's kids... you said "these kids don't stand a chance." but just think that those section 8 people were also babies themselves once and their parents were probably shitty parents too and their parent's parent's were probably shitty parents and their parent's parent's parent's were probably shitty parents. these people don't stand a chance, they're born into this misery, their children will be born into misery and their children's children will be born into misery. you're right, none of them stand a chance.
...
so you should have the problem with the parents, not the system.
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 831
Likes: 0
From: Eugene, OR
Originally Posted by cutuesday,Jun 29 2006, 07:12 PM
I am not the one that most needs to do research on this subject but I will continue to do so because it is part of my job. Anyways, since you don't like Hyman, I will use Stiglitz as a source. Stiglitz wrote that transfer payments are "payments that transfer money from one individual to another - but not in return for the provision of goods or services." Did you catch that? From one individual to another. Its not government money, its taxpayer money. I do not know why you think that disability payments, social security, and unemployment checks do not constitute social welfare spending. It is money taken from someone who supposedly has more ability to pay and given to someone with supposedly less ability to pay. That is the principle of welfare. It does not matter if the recipient is old, disabled, unemployed, or a single parent with too many kids, its all social welfare spending.
the kind of welfare we were talking about in this thread was stuff like section 8 housing, food stamps, etc. which accounts for a meager part of our federal budget - i still stand by that statement. there's no way in hell that we spend more on welfare programs than we do on military... and that's common sense. anyone with eyes and ears should know that. unless of course you want to count social security as welfare.
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,867
Likes: 0
From: Oh kwa tan zen wan
Originally Posted by cutuesday,Jun 29 2006, 10:12 PM
I am not the one that most needs to do research on this subject but I will continue to do so because it is part of my job. Anyways, since you don't like Hyman, I will use Stiglitz as a source. Stiglitz wrote that transfer payments are "payments that transfer money from one individual to another - but not in return for the provision of goods or services." Did you catch that? From one individual to another. Its not government money, its taxpayer money. I do not know why you think that disability payments, social security, and unemployment checks do not constitute social welfare spending. It is money taken from someone who supposedly has more ability to pay and given to someone with supposedly less ability to pay. That is the principle of welfare. It does not matter if the recipient is old, disabled, unemployed, or a single parent with too many kids, its all social welfare spending.
Oh, and who is Stiglitz? He was an economic advisor to President Clinton. You should like him. Although Hyman is no right winger either.
By the way, neither am I. The thing is, if you want to achieve social change, then you are going to have to get your facts straight so that people will take you seriously. The two books I cited were written by liberal authors. You can argue for or against more social spending. I don't have a problem with that, but you cannot misrepresent what it is or how much has been spent on it.
Stiglitz, J. (2000). Economics of the public sector. 3rd ed. New York: W.W. Norton.
Oh, and who is Stiglitz? He was an economic advisor to President Clinton. You should like him. Although Hyman is no right winger either.
By the way, neither am I. The thing is, if you want to achieve social change, then you are going to have to get your facts straight so that people will take you seriously. The two books I cited were written by liberal authors. You can argue for or against more social spending. I don't have a problem with that, but you cannot misrepresent what it is or how much has been spent on it.
Stiglitz, J. (2000). Economics of the public sector. 3rd ed. New York: W.W. Norton.
. Don't waste your time with that poster. It'll prove pointless.
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 17,288
Likes: 39
From: Nashville
In addition to the Section 8, the food stamps, welfare, etc......I have noticed a trend of more people applying for and getting "disability" (or SSI as they call it in the hood).
I am not sure what the % of the different races are, but sure seems like a lot of city folks claim they are disabled. In my eyes they are just lazy or fat (or both).
I have lots of city neighbors who collect "SSI" but then ask me if they can do some "cash" work for me.
NO YOU GO TO HELL, YOU GO TO HELL AND YOU DIE (mr. hat)
It is all one big scam. In the end I guess all the scamming is better than bagging groceries for $5.15 per hour.
I am not sure what the % of the different races are, but sure seems like a lot of city folks claim they are disabled. In my eyes they are just lazy or fat (or both).
I have lots of city neighbors who collect "SSI" but then ask me if they can do some "cash" work for me.
NO YOU GO TO HELL, YOU GO TO HELL AND YOU DIE (mr. hat)
It is all one big scam. In the end I guess all the scamming is better than bagging groceries for $5.15 per hour.
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,560
Likes: 1
From: Albuquerque, NM
Originally Posted by C_Unit,Jun 29 2006, 10:59 AM
if i knew, i'd run for president... but i don't.
typical democrat huh? i've got all these ideals and i can't/don't know how to do a damn thing about it. i'm not afraid to admit that's whats wrong with liberals today.
typical democrat huh? i've got all these ideals and i can't/don't know how to do a damn thing about it. i'm not afraid to admit that's whats wrong with liberals today.
"When I say government, I mean republicans and democrats *working together*. And the only thing stupider... than a republican, or a democrat, is when these assholes work together!!
"See, you have the Republican party, which is a party of bad ideas. And you have the Democrats, which is a party of no ideas. The way it works is, the republican stands up and says 'I have a really bad idea!!!' And the democrat says, 'And I can make it even SHITTIER!!'
Anywho, IMO the welfare conundrum is directly tied to the issues surrounding illegal immigration. People who won't do minimum wage jobs and instead collect welfare, or disability income, are part of the demographic who CAN but WON'T do the jobs illegal immgrants end up taking. So, due to their pride/lazyness/whatever, our country is made to look more attractive to people in Mexico looking for work.
If the government is going to be giving this money away anyway, instead of giving it to people who sit on their asses all day and pop out kids, why don't they at least give it to business owners who apply for it so they can pay their employees more? That way, the job cleaning toilets somewhere pays a couple bucks more than minimum wage, and maybe the welfare office tells the loser (otherwise sitting around doing nothing) "Here's this job, it pays the same amount as you're getting now, and we're doing away with welfare. Take it or leave it."
There are probably numerous holes in this logic, but it's an idea, anyway.
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,867
Likes: 0
From: Oh kwa tan zen wan
Originally Posted by Will,Jun 30 2006, 09:35 AM
If the government is going to be giving this money away anyway, instead of giving it to people who sit on their asses all day and pop out kids, why don't they at least give it to business owners who apply for it so they can pay their employees more? That way, the job cleaning toilets somewhere pays a couple bucks more than minimum wage, and maybe the welfare office tells the loser (otherwise sitting around doing nothing) "Here's this job, it pays the same amount as you're getting now, and we're doing away with welfare. Take it or leave it."
There are probably numerous holes in this logic, but it's an idea, anyway.
There are probably numerous holes in this logic, but it's an idea, anyway.
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 17,288
Likes: 39
From: Nashville
The excuse for not working is "who is going to watch my kids"? The $5.15 / hour job would not even cover daycare for 2-3 kids.
One of my section 8 tenants has a really nice pretty and friendly daughter.... unfort she is now a single mom at barely age 18. Probably will totally ruin her life. she has applied for section 8 for herself.
One of my employees also has an 19 year old daughter who is now pregnant with zero future. The "Dad" already has 2 kids to someone else. She has already applied for Section 8.
What a bunch of ****ing idiots.
One of my section 8 tenants has a really nice pretty and friendly daughter.... unfort she is now a single mom at barely age 18. Probably will totally ruin her life. she has applied for section 8 for herself.
One of my employees also has an 19 year old daughter who is now pregnant with zero future. The "Dad" already has 2 kids to someone else. She has already applied for Section 8.
What a bunch of ****ing idiots.
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 831
Likes: 0
From: Eugene, OR
Originally Posted by Scot,Jun 30 2006, 10:10 AM
One of my section 8 tenants has a really nice pretty and friendly daughter.... unfort she is now a single mom at barely age 18. Probably will totally ruin her life. she has applied for section 8 for herself.
One of my employees also has an 19 year old daughter who is now pregnant with zero future. The "Dad" already has 2 kids to someone else. She has already applied for Section 8.
What a bunch of ****ing idiots.
One of my employees also has an 19 year old daughter who is now pregnant with zero future. The "Dad" already has 2 kids to someone else. She has already applied for Section 8.
What a bunch of ****ing idiots.
i wonder if these girls realize how much having a kid will alter their life completely?? sometimes i see other people's babies and this maternal feeling wells up inside me but i know that there's no way in hell i'm ready to have a kid, or will be ready for a long time. so every day i pop my anti-baby pills. it's that easy. i even get 'em for free... OR if you can't even handle the responsibility of remembering to take a pill once a day... you could do depo shots. once every 3 mos. or something like that. how hard is that?
