I guess what I was getting at is fairness is matter of highly subjective perspective.

One of the best quotes of all time from a movie came from Labyrinth where Jennifer Connely says "thats not fair" to David Bowie when he sped up the countdown clock. His reply burned directly into my brain. He retorted, " You keep saying that, I wonder what your basis for comparison is?"

Fairness, justice, right, wrong and many other concepts are based so much on what is affecting you at the time you evaluate them, that they are almost impossible to define. Possession, value, morality...all of these higher thoughts are based on the fact that we have the ability to think beyond the most basic animalistic instincts. Our perception of each of these concepts change as our environment changes.

It would be next to impossible to debate this concept from a completely neutral standpoint. My argument is based on humans as an animal species on this planet, free of bias from any religious teachings or learned responses. The moment we, as a being on this planet, began to think deeper than the next meal, mate and cave, we evolved into something that is completely open to interpretation based on our past experience and cultural/religious bias.

The basis for all morality and law came from higher thought, thus the basis of fairness/justice is open to interpretation based on the same morality and law. This I believe is foundation for all the strife we are experienceing on this planet now. Different tribes came up with different bases for morality and law and therefore differ in onpinion on what is fair.

I guess I would say life is ultimately fair, regardless of my perception of it. Life finds a way, nature abhors a vacum, and water seeks its own level. I apply these as axioms in life as much as the laws of nature they attemp to define. I am fairly fatalist in many of my global views so I may not be the best person to get an opinion from.

 

life ain't fair, you have to play with the cards you are dealt.

 

Raj I love your signature and avatar rules, this line in particular:


that just struck me as exceptionally funny


</offtopic>

 

to take this point further, this would be assuming that everyone is dealt the same amount of cards, or even allowed to sit at the table.


my $.02

 

I still disagree with that.

What one person thinks is fair may not be "fair" in another person's mind. It's a whole basis for arbitration and legal counsel.

 

^I meant like a government or people could discuss, vote and decide a general standard.

PrimoGen, props to you. rarely have i heard such a cold, yet sadly true, educated statement. that is how i feel, except for the last part where you said life is ultimately fair. to me, it's like the nature show where the one lion is free to bone 100 females while the smaller quiet ones are on the sidelines, dying. the notion of fairness for humans is simply to keep the lower classes from rising up in revolt. the rich and fortunate fear this truth getting out. that is why i think it's important for us little people to discuss and see through the facade. this matrix, if u will.

 

 

I would say that yes they could... unto themselves

until we have one regulating body that governs all of us (and everyone agreed with that body), we will not be able to come to a consensus. Even if we do eventually get to a workable set of fairness doctrines, they would be in constant state of flux as our needs from them would change so often and so drastically.

let me say that I am not arguing with by any means. this topic has just set many of my cogs moving. A sociology thesis could based off of this topic with ease.

 

this is a good analogy to discuss:

like most pride and pack mentalities the non-alpha males are allowed to eat and exist governed by a pecking order for lack of a better turm. Any male in that cast can challenge the alpha at anytime.

In the lions' case, the loser (be it the alpha or challenger) is cast out of the pride forever. that unfortunate soul is truely on the short end of the stick because they then become rogue and must truely fend for themselves. Most of us are aware that the females in the pride do the hunting so this prospect becomes even more desperate. The winner is now free to breed and eat as they see fit.

The thing that makes this analogy interesting is that (to the best of our knowledge) lions do not have the slightest concept of fairness. They have existed for quite some time governed by the natural laws and morality that have presented themselves to the lions. Do the lions think its fair? I dont think we have noticed a revolt or change in their social structure as of yet, have we?? Good question?

Our early ancestors and even some tribes that have been secluded from progress still behave in much the same manner. Many tribes practice polygamy and also employ a caste system when it comes to wealth and resource distribution. to us that may not be fair but to that tribe it is perfectly acceptable.

it is only us humans who have evolved enough to establish such prolific rules and then, beyond that, have the capacity to question the validity of those very rules.

this is a really great topic. We could pick almost any arbitrary scenario and be able to discuss at least two sides to that action or practice.


more perspectives from others please

 

you point out exactly what is wrong.

the difference between what we expect or hope for and what is actual is = to unhappiness.

that's why i posed the question at the very beginning that we should all teach our children that the world is unfair, biased and not to expect anything. therefore, sadly, they wont feel the discrepancy. be like the lion, if u will.

im crap out of luck since i was taught by my christian school that the good lord makes all fair in life. and as hard as i try to shake that and update to reality, it always pops back up.