The end result of the soft top take removal
11-18-2008, 09:33 PM
#31
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The 6-point cages I've seen do not pose any additional risk of head injury.
(1)-there are 4 contact points behind the seats and 2 contact points in front of the passengers.
So, you are physically unable to hit your head on the roll bars behind you. The factory seats and roll hoops keep you from hitting the rear bar with your head.
(2)-then there are 2 bars running from the A-pillar back to the roll bar behind the seats. These bars are at the same height as the convertible roof interior frame mechanism. If you are involved in a Motor Vehicle Collision (MVC) and you struck the cage with the side of your head, you would have most likely struck your head against the convertible top mechanism.
(3)-then there is the bar that runs from the A-pillar on the driver's side to the passenger side. If your seatbelt is too loose and your head strikes the bar that is located at the top of the windshield, you would most likely hit your head on the window frame.
Here are the quick fixes:
(1) No action required, because your head cannot get behind the seats while you are wearing your seatbelt. Solution, tighten seatbelt.
(2) T-bone MVC. The odds are you would have struck the metal portion of the convertible frame. Solution: pad the roll bar where your head may bump the bar that runs front to back. Use a pool noodle, or closed cell padding
(3)- the top of the window frame is difficult to strike your head against. In order to strike your head near the top of the window frame, your seatbelt is too loose allowing you to lift off your seat as you collide with an object. The leading edge of the convertible top (at the top of the window frame) is metal. It is about 2" further from the seats, so if your belt is loose, you may lift off your seat and strike the front of your head.
Benefits: the factory roll hoops are too low for most drivers. During a roll over, you are more likely to strike your head. Your head is lower than the window frame, but is higher than the roll hoops. Your head becomes the highest point between the roll hoops and the top of the window.
By having the rear bar higher than the roll hoops and having the front bar at the same height as the window frame, you may get an additional 3" of headroom.
The bar that runs across the top of the window frame provides additional strength and the window is less likely to fail with the additional bracing from the cage.
you also have the benefit of airbags which should prevent you from striking the front bar.
i hope this helps
(1)-there are 4 contact points behind the seats and 2 contact points in front of the passengers.
So, you are physically unable to hit your head on the roll bars behind you. The factory seats and roll hoops keep you from hitting the rear bar with your head.
(2)-then there are 2 bars running from the A-pillar back to the roll bar behind the seats. These bars are at the same height as the convertible roof interior frame mechanism. If you are involved in a Motor Vehicle Collision (MVC) and you struck the cage with the side of your head, you would have most likely struck your head against the convertible top mechanism.
(3)-then there is the bar that runs from the A-pillar on the driver's side to the passenger side. If your seatbelt is too loose and your head strikes the bar that is located at the top of the windshield, you would most likely hit your head on the window frame.
Here are the quick fixes:
(1) No action required, because your head cannot get behind the seats while you are wearing your seatbelt. Solution, tighten seatbelt.
(2) T-bone MVC. The odds are you would have struck the metal portion of the convertible frame. Solution: pad the roll bar where your head may bump the bar that runs front to back. Use a pool noodle, or closed cell padding
(3)- the top of the window frame is difficult to strike your head against. In order to strike your head near the top of the window frame, your seatbelt is too loose allowing you to lift off your seat as you collide with an object. The leading edge of the convertible top (at the top of the window frame) is metal. It is about 2" further from the seats, so if your belt is loose, you may lift off your seat and strike the front of your head.
Benefits: the factory roll hoops are too low for most drivers. During a roll over, you are more likely to strike your head. Your head is lower than the window frame, but is higher than the roll hoops. Your head becomes the highest point between the roll hoops and the top of the window.
By having the rear bar higher than the roll hoops and having the front bar at the same height as the window frame, you may get an additional 3" of headroom.
The bar that runs across the top of the window frame provides additional strength and the window is less likely to fail with the additional bracing from the cage.
you also have the benefit of airbags which should prevent you from striking the front bar.
i hope this helps
11-18-2008, 11:13 PM
#32
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have you seen a crash test video before? Go check it out.
You post has so many flaws that I am not going to bother picking each out. It's late.
The dangers of running a rollbar in a street car has been WIDELY discussed for years and years with a unanimous decision in the racing/tracking scene. It is not safe, but each to his own discretion. Go do some research first.
Ask the Canadian government why they dont allow the GT3RS into Canada with its OEM roll cage. Yes, because it is dangerous. So the GT3RS in Canada are purchased without a rollcage so Porsche is required to take off the cage for Canadian customers. Customers who want the cage BACK IN to the car has to pay it as an option.
You post has so many flaws that I am not going to bother picking each out. It's late.
The dangers of running a rollbar in a street car has been WIDELY discussed for years and years with a unanimous decision in the racing/tracking scene. It is not safe, but each to his own discretion. Go do some research first.
Ask the Canadian government why they dont allow the GT3RS into Canada with its OEM roll cage. Yes, because it is dangerous. So the GT3RS in Canada are purchased without a rollcage so Porsche is required to take off the cage for Canadian customers. Customers who want the cage BACK IN to the car has to pay it as an option.
11-19-2008, 08:10 AM
#33
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Originally Posted by yellowlab,Nov 18 2008, 10:33 PM
The 6-point cages I've seen do not pose any additional risk of head injury.
(1)-there are 4 contact points behind the seats and 2 contact points in front of the passengers.
So, you are physically unable to hit your head on the roll bars behind you. The factory seats and roll hoops keep you from hitting the rear bar with your head.
(2)-then there are 2 bars running from the A-pillar back to the roll bar behind the seats. These bars are at the same height as the convertible roof interior frame mechanism. If you are involved in a Motor Vehicle Collision (MVC) and you struck the cage with the side of your head, you would have most likely struck your head against the convertible top mechanism.
(3)-then there is the bar that runs from the A-pillar on the driver's side to the passenger side. If your seatbelt is too loose and your head strikes the bar that is located at the top of the windshield, you would most likely hit your head on the window frame.
Here are the quick fixes:
(1) No action required, because your head cannot get behind the seats while you are wearing your seatbelt. Solution, tighten seatbelt.
(2) T-bone MVC. The odds are you would have struck the metal portion of the convertible frame. Solution: pad the roll bar where your head may bump the bar that runs front to back. Use a pool noodle, or closed cell padding
(3)- the top of the window frame is difficult to strike your head against. In order to strike your head near the top of the window frame, your seatbelt is too loose allowing you to lift off your seat as you collide with an object. The leading edge of the convertible top (at the top of the window frame) is metal. It is about 2" further from the seats, so if your belt is loose, you may lift off your seat and strike the front of your head.
Benefits: the factory roll hoops are too low for most drivers. During a roll over, you are more likely to strike your head. Your head is lower than the window frame, but is higher than the roll hoops. Your head becomes the highest point between the roll hoops and the top of the window.
By having the rear bar higher than the roll hoops and having the front bar at the same height as the window frame, you may get an additional 3" of headroom.
The bar that runs across the top of the window frame provides additional strength and the window is less likely to fail with the additional bracing from the cage.
you also have the benefit of airbags which should prevent you from striking the front bar.
i hope this helps
(1)-there are 4 contact points behind the seats and 2 contact points in front of the passengers.
So, you are physically unable to hit your head on the roll bars behind you. The factory seats and roll hoops keep you from hitting the rear bar with your head.
(2)-then there are 2 bars running from the A-pillar back to the roll bar behind the seats. These bars are at the same height as the convertible roof interior frame mechanism. If you are involved in a Motor Vehicle Collision (MVC) and you struck the cage with the side of your head, you would have most likely struck your head against the convertible top mechanism.
(3)-then there is the bar that runs from the A-pillar on the driver's side to the passenger side. If your seatbelt is too loose and your head strikes the bar that is located at the top of the windshield, you would most likely hit your head on the window frame.
Here are the quick fixes:
(1) No action required, because your head cannot get behind the seats while you are wearing your seatbelt. Solution, tighten seatbelt.
(2) T-bone MVC. The odds are you would have struck the metal portion of the convertible frame. Solution: pad the roll bar where your head may bump the bar that runs front to back. Use a pool noodle, or closed cell padding
(3)- the top of the window frame is difficult to strike your head against. In order to strike your head near the top of the window frame, your seatbelt is too loose allowing you to lift off your seat as you collide with an object. The leading edge of the convertible top (at the top of the window frame) is metal. It is about 2" further from the seats, so if your belt is loose, you may lift off your seat and strike the front of your head.
Benefits: the factory roll hoops are too low for most drivers. During a roll over, you are more likely to strike your head. Your head is lower than the window frame, but is higher than the roll hoops. Your head becomes the highest point between the roll hoops and the top of the window.
By having the rear bar higher than the roll hoops and having the front bar at the same height as the window frame, you may get an additional 3" of headroom.
The bar that runs across the top of the window frame provides additional strength and the window is less likely to fail with the additional bracing from the cage.
you also have the benefit of airbags which should prevent you from striking the front bar.
i hope this helps
1) there are 4 contact points behind the seats and 2 contact points in front of the passengers. So, you are physically unable to hit your head on the roll bars behind you. The factory seats and roll hoops keep you from hitting the rear bar with your head.
yes, you are correct about the contact points. However, in a hard collision your body WILL bounce around more than most people would think. Hence my comment on directing to watch a crash in car video. You not might only hit your head on the foward motion upon stopping, but also on the strong recoil. Someone in NC recently hurt her head bitting the center compartment during a crash, thats where the harness bar goes in a car equipped with a cage. Don't forget vehicle deformation too, a crushed/deformed vehicle may bring u a lot closer to the cage bars than one would like..
2) there are 2 bars running from the A-pillar back to the roll bar behind the seats. These bars are at the same height as the convertible roof interior frame mechanism. If you are involved in a Motor Vehicle Collision (MVC) and you struck the cage with the side of your head, you would have most likely struck your head against the convertible top mechanism.
These two bars are not at the same height as the roof frame interior, they are still 1-2 inches closer to your head. If you talk to an experienced cage builder, they will tell you that 1-2 inches away from the head is a big deal as people have been known to cut the interior of their s2k hardtop just to fit the cage 1 inch higher and 1 inch further away from the head. (I'm referring to full race s2000s).
Striking your head against the convertible mechanism is not nearly as serious as hitting a 1-1/4" steel bar welded on the chassis. Funny how this was jsut discussed last week in the Racing & Comeptition Forum. The frame is made of linkages, which give more than a welded bar upon impact.
3) then there is the bar that runs from the A-pillar on the driver's side to the passenger side. If your seatbelt is too loose and your head strikes the bar that is located at the top of the windshield, you would most likely hit your head on the window frame.
Yes, and thats why we have airbags for. Although it is still possible and theres nothing we can do about it wearing a OEM 3 pt belt
Your Solutions:
(1) No action required, because your head cannot get behind the seats while you are wearing your seatbelt. Solution, tighten seatbelt.
Tightening seatbelt doesnt do much as all seatbelts are designed to give a little (even harnesses, although less) under hard decelleration. Best best is to run a harness on the street, as painfully as that is
(2) T-bone MVC. The odds are you would have struck the metal portion of the convertible frame. Solution: pad the roll bar where your head may bump the bar that runs front to back. Use a pool noodle, or closed cell padding
Padding helps, but its not the solution. Hitting your head on a padded rollbar will still cause one serious concussions or other bodily injuries (this has been documented in R&C forum too)
(3)- the top of the window frame is difficult to strike your head against. In order to strike your head near the top of the window frame, your seatbelt is too loose allowing you to lift off your seat as you collide with an object. The leading edge of the convertible top (at the top of the window frame) is metal. It is about 2" further from the seats, so if your belt is loose, you may lift off your seat and strike the front of your head.
See comment on seat belts/harness above
Benefits: the factory roll hoops are too low for most drivers. During a roll over, you are more likely to strike your head. Your head is lower than the window frame, but is higher than the roll hoops. Your head becomes the highest point between the roll hoops and the top of the window.
By having the rear bar higher than the roll hoops and having the front bar at the same height as the window frame, you may get an additional 3" of headroom.
The bar that runs across the top of the window frame provides additional strength and the window is less likely to fail with the additional bracing from the cage.
you also have the benefit of airbags which should prevent you from striking the front bar.
Yes, that is what a rollbar is designed for. Rollover protection. All in all, dont just take my words for it. Browse around more on the R&C forum and you will find all of your anwsers there. A brief search came up with this: https://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showt...5&#entry4939769
Probably not the best thread out there since its dated, but if you start browsing the R&C forum, its a question that comes up time after time ...and its an issue that has been beaten to death.
Good luck.
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10-13-2011 12:09 PM