Coilover for Daily Driver
01-30-2018, 12:19 PM
#22
Another option, H&R coilovers. These are Bilstein pss, with H&R springs fitted in place of the Bilstein ones, and valving setup to match.
It comes down to how you want the front to rear bias. The Bilstein springs are heavily front biased, significantly moreso than even stock CR bias.
Each suspension change from Honda, which occurred every two years during production, moved the bias more forward, and more toward understeer. The CR was then a big jump from where '08 '09 left off. Bilstein is again jump forward from there.
The more forward understeer bias of CR is apparently faster around a track, but less fun on the street. Much of the auto journalist praise on the S was its 'daringly nuetral' bias. This was eroded as it slowly biased to understeer with each successive suspension tweak from Honda. Understeer is more user friendly for drivers raised on front wheel drive. But way less fun for skilled drivers.
The H&R spring rates are more nuetral biased. They use the same spring rate front and rear, whereas Bilstein is much stiffer front than rear. H&R springs are also considered very high quality.
Ironically, Bilstein pss is street oriented, with spring rates way too soft for serious track use (and ideal for street), yet uses spring rate front rear bias more suited to track. Never understood that.
It comes down to how you want the front to rear bias. The Bilstein springs are heavily front biased, significantly moreso than even stock CR bias.
Each suspension change from Honda, which occurred every two years during production, moved the bias more forward, and more toward understeer. The CR was then a big jump from where '08 '09 left off. Bilstein is again jump forward from there.
The more forward understeer bias of CR is apparently faster around a track, but less fun on the street. Much of the auto journalist praise on the S was its 'daringly nuetral' bias. This was eroded as it slowly biased to understeer with each successive suspension tweak from Honda. Understeer is more user friendly for drivers raised on front wheel drive. But way less fun for skilled drivers.
The H&R spring rates are more nuetral biased. They use the same spring rate front and rear, whereas Bilstein is much stiffer front than rear. H&R springs are also considered very high quality.
Ironically, Bilstein pss is street oriented, with spring rates way too soft for serious track use (and ideal for street), yet uses spring rate front rear bias more suited to track. Never understood that.
Thank you for this info (first time I've read about this actually); to me, F/R bias specs is the most important factor in determining which suspension/springs to purchase. I've always wondered if Bilsteins were Front or Rear bias; because they never show their official spring-rates. Where did you get this info if I may ask?? Is it truly a fact?
For me, I prefer Front bias (or, similar to CR and Swift Spec-R, Front biases). It is nice to know that the Bilsteins are also Front bias
I have one question....which is more rebuild friendly... PSS/B14 or PSS9/B16 ?
I've heard/read that the lower-model PSS/B14 are better for rebuilding... because the PSS9/B16 have a complicated adjustment-knob/valving and can be much more expensive to rebuild. Is this true?
01-30-2018, 01:52 PM
#24
The actual Bilstein spring rates are published, just have to search a bit to find.
The numbers are similar to CR, but with even more front bias. CR is already too much front bias for me.
I have the rates, will go dig them out and report back in this thread if someone else doesn't beat me to it.
They're progressive springs, so they're actually softer than the quoted rate at first, then a big, bump, or hard corner, uses up the softer part of spring then you progressively get to the stiffer rate.
The numbers are similar to CR, but with even more front bias. CR is already too much front bias for me.
I have the rates, will go dig them out and report back in this thread if someone else doesn't beat me to it.
They're progressive springs, so they're actually softer than the quoted rate at first, then a big, bump, or hard corner, uses up the softer part of spring then you progressively get to the stiffer rate.
01-31-2018, 07:01 AM
#26
Hmmm, wonder why I always thought pss were progressive?
Anyway, its:
CR: 384f 343r
PSS: 345f 285r
According to the motion ratios measured by SakeBomb Garage, and spring rates dissertation from twowoos, the f/r bias for stock CR is:
59.2%f, 40.8%r
Using PSS with CR swaybars would result in:
60.9%f, 39.1%r
So you can see PSS is more fwd biased than CR.
Anyway, its:
CR: 384f 343r
PSS: 345f 285r
According to the motion ratios measured by SakeBomb Garage, and spring rates dissertation from twowoos, the f/r bias for stock CR is:
59.2%f, 40.8%r
Using PSS with CR swaybars would result in:
60.9%f, 39.1%r
So you can see PSS is more fwd biased than CR.
01-31-2018, 07:54 AM
#27
So it seems that the Blistein's are on national back order for the next month or two. Has anyone ridden in cars with both the Blistein PSS and the HKS IV GT?
I was looking at the reviews of the HKS IV GT and it seems that people really like the setup and they are available for a reasonable price. I might be leaning that way currently just not sure if its worth waiting on the Blistein's to get back in stock.
I was looking at the reviews of the HKS IV GT and it seems that people really like the setup and they are available for a reasonable price. I might be leaning that way currently just not sure if its worth waiting on the Blistein's to get back in stock.
01-31-2018, 06:48 PM
#28
So it seems that the Blistein's are on national back order for the next month or two. Has anyone ridden in cars with both the Blistein PSS and the HKS IV GT?
I was looking at the reviews of the HKS IV GT and it seems that people really like the setup and they are available for a reasonable price. I might be leaning that way currently just not sure if its worth waiting on the Blistein's to get back in stock.
I was looking at the reviews of the HKS IV GT and it seems that people really like the setup and they are available for a reasonable price. I might be leaning that way currently just not sure if its worth waiting on the Blistein's to get back in stock.
Things I didn't like about the PSS:
- Having to reuse the OEM top hats (not that it should be a deal breaker)
- No damper adjustments iirc
- They only lowered 1 inch max or something (I'm not about that slammed life by any means)
- I've seen used ones that had some rusting or corrosion on the body, so I'm not sure if the body is coated or if it was just the set that I saw
- Special coating on the threads to prevent seizing (maybe more for those who may have to deal with salted roads and corrosion)
- Lower bracket design, instead of the -[ shaped design like the PSS, Ohlins (though Sakebomb garage makes new brackets to make the coilovers sit lower), and Tein (saw a picture of a bent bracket at the connecting joint)
- Higher spring rates (8k/7k), which I think is a good middle ground for a daily (4.7k/3.7k is stock)
01-31-2018, 06:59 PM
#29
As much as I love them....the Bilsteins are zinc plated. Which is fu&$ing stupid.
So...if you drive in winter/salt....you're probably about to have a rusty time.
Idk if that's a consideration.
KW's are stainless steel. But...KW doesn't quite compare to how nice the Bilsteins are. I wouldn't buy V1's, personally. And V2's are kinda priced really badly.
If the zinc plating isn't a deal breaker, why not get the H&R version of the Bilstein?
So...if you drive in winter/salt....you're probably about to have a rusty time.
Idk if that's a consideration.
KW's are stainless steel. But...KW doesn't quite compare to how nice the Bilsteins are. I wouldn't buy V1's, personally. And V2's are kinda priced really badly.
If the zinc plating isn't a deal breaker, why not get the H&R version of the Bilstein?
02-04-2018, 05:20 AM
#30
So how would the Bilstein PSS or HKS IV GT perform for occasional track days? I'm talking like 2-3 track days per year from a driver with only a handful of track day experience.