I believe the A052's to be faster because of what I've been told and I certainly see them delaminate less. However, they are $400 more a set and do wear quicker.

That being said, I think the RT660s are closer than people give them credit for, if not as fast from what I've seen. I've seen them win a few classes at Finger Lakes but don't know the composition of those classes well (i.e. drivers and depth of talent). I did just do a local event with 4 very good, national level ND drivers in STR. The top driver, on a 35 second course won on RT660s by .25s. He's a very good driver and #2 has been a bridesmaid at nationals. I believe #2 was on A052s but I did not walk the car to check. I just know that's typically what they run on that car. Somewhat anecdotal but I do think the #2 driver in this case is usually more successful. My next set, I may consider the RT's instead of the A052's. If I'm buying 2 sets in a season, the cost difference is pretty significant.

 

I totally get the price and wear thing. the good 200tw tires are getting crazy about that.

One of our locals is closer to the pointy end and has both the A052s and the 660s. He was faster on the yokes and could not stand the 660s. . I think many want to believe the much cheaper 660 is as good, but from what I am seeing it is not even close in the ST classes at least. I think if you start looking at more camber limited setups that may change some as I expect with the added wear the limited camber brings, also will come lowered performance. So the 660 may be good in those applications.

I am looking now at the SCCA nationals tour results for this year. Just looking at STR for now (if I have time will look at stuff like ES next)
So far, out of all events, I have found only 6-7 drivers (some are the same driver at other events) running Falkens. I do see one that grabbed the last trophy spot at Bristol but there were a few of the regular trophy winners not present there. A couple of finshes 2 out of the trophies at two other events.
All trophies but one were on yokes and the vast majority of STR is running the yokes other than a few that still had some good bridgestones.

Based on the above, all the pointy end drivers have decided the yokes are the tire to have and are paying a lot more to run them. So I just do not see the 660s being competitive at the national level in an ST setup. Interestingly, while I have not looked as deeply at the other classes yet, you do see more falkens in street classes which makes sense due to the issues with camber limited cars. I know on staggered camber limited setups it is terrible wear wise and I would expect grip to fall off quickly there as well. A couple we know locally codrive an ES MRS and they were getting 2 events (24 runs) out of the fronts last year. So not sure if it is the performance or just that camber challenged cars push the wear rate so high that those classes show more falkens being used.

 

Yeah, I get that tires matter a lot. I was just hoping the RS4s weren't so far off. I remember being able to toss the car into corners w/ the RE71Rs while I now have to be a bit more careful with lifting off and braking on corner entry. Again it reminds me of my buddy's LGT which would push with MPSS but would actually kind of turn in decent (for an AWD car) with RE71Rs.

I used to run 10mm forward rake however I dialed it out to 0 rake with my last alignment. I don't exactly have a good reason why other than wanting a "baseline." I recognize that the oem suspension has something like 10-20mm forward rake.

You're running a massive sway bar stagger front to back. I suppose it makes me feel a little bit better since the '00 also has the stiffest OEM rear bar. I think I might just take the plunge. Regardless if I buy a cheaper bar and it's not enough I'm still stuck with getting the karcepts. And if I get the karcepts and want a softer bar I figure getting a second core still is slightly cheaper than getting the SBG bar.

I'm mainly looking at the RT660s because of price. I read that they grip similar to RE71Rs which is good enough for me. The extra longevity and stiffer side wall don't hurt either. The tire will still likely do some street duty as I do like to regularly to drive the car on weekends (weekday DD is a CRV). Probably will do 50/50 auto X and street use. I don't think the A052 sound like a good idea if I auto X them a few times and on the occasional street duty they're significantly heat cycled before I've really gotten much track use from them. I definitely could feel the RE71Rs heat cycle out from street use.

 

Totally get that. I think to get closer to the RE-71R you want the Nankang, but that also does not address price/wear. Those are about the same price as yokes (more with free shipping from TR on the yokes and any discounts they have) and I am guessing will wear like them too. I think you will do ok on the 660s and do not think they are bad, just not going to be up at pointy end in STR. But I too hate spending tons on tires and get the decision.

The RS4s as you have found are way off pace for autox. I run them on the S2k for track days as mentioned before. Way cheaper and last a hell of a lot longer which is nice. For fun at a recent practice autox day, I ran the RS4s the first half of the day and then threw on a brand new never driven on set of yokes. I was 1.4 seconds faster on a 40 second course on the yokes first run I leave the RS4s on for any street driving as well. At the price of the yokes I am not putting any miles on them I do not have to!

 

I'm just not sure how many have actually tested the RT660s to inform that decision vs. taking the known against the unknown. I believe the RT660 compound has changed over time to address issues too. The #1 driver in my sample told me he was just running the RT660s for non-significant events and saving the A052s for events he cared about. I think this was the first time he ran them so they were fresh. He does usually beat me but I have beaten him before as well. The #2 driver, I have never beaten or come anywhere near. Maybe #1 had a bad day that I beat him and I'm investing too much in that. I know he has never placed as well as #2 has at nats either though. Maybe I'm placing too much on a sample size of 1 event but it was 6 runs and there were also a few other really good drivers that have trophied at nats present. The classes I'm using as samples from Finger Lakes were primarily Street classes as far as I remember, so you're right about camber being a factor.

Either way, my point to OP is that I do not think the RT660s are a second off the Yoks from what I've seen. I'd gauge far less but I haven't tried both myself. Just looking at stat sheets and drivers that I've competed against multiple times. For the money, unless you're really trying to win highly contested events, RT660s can get it done and are significantly cheaper.

 

At my locals, we have an interesting mix of RT660's, BFG Rivals, and Nankang CR1's. I may need to be the one who tests the new Kumho V730's. They all seem to be competitive with eachother but we did reach some verdicts. Nearly everyone had experience running RE71R's so it's the easiest tire to use as a benchmark.
Yoko's vs RE71Rs vs RT660's. During independent testing with Yoko's, RT660's, and RE71R's. The Yoko's ran a top time of 1:03.9 with RE71R's less than a second behind solidly running in the 1:04's.The RT660's could not break the 1.05 barrier using the same car in full STR prep. It was more than 1s of difference over a 60~ second course.
In terms of heat management. RT660 > RE71R > Brokohama

The RT660's are also just cost effective. We jokingly discussed a gentleman's agreement about not running Yoko's unless it's a points event or you're dialing in suspension/practicing for nats and we do point out when one another is using the "cheater" tire to shame you for your financial choices at a local event.

I'll be purchasing a set of new Yolk's for FingerLakes/Nats/Time Trial events in 2020 and will be using used BFG and worn RE71R's for locals.

 

I actually liked my BFG's more than I realized. My best PAX of the year is on 4 yr. old BFGs. I hated them in the beginning of the season when it was cooler out but bet I'd love them fresh in warmer temps, especially with 2 drivers. They wear so much better than the A052s. Also, just stylistically I like the slip angle aspect of them. I just have a hard time rationalizing the mixed data that I have to believe the RT660s are a full second behind the A052s on a 60s course. The winner of my event is a very good driver but seems somewhat inconsistent. There were 2-3 other legitimate national contenders there that were beaten by .25s on a 35s course with 5 runs.

I'd be game to not run A052's locally if I had another set of wheels. They're expensive and do wear super quick. I'm not sure if I'd be on RT660s or Rivals otherwise. Nankangs are an oddball that I don't have a good perception of.

 

I appreciate the debate between tires. I'm not too serious, just trying to have fun and personally improve. The car is half baked STR spec and sometimes I run it as XSA if there's more competition since the STR contingency in my area is small and made up of NA/B/C miatas. XSA has become the new I didn't read the rule book class locally and there's greater variety of cars (with XSB). Old datsun Zs, miata boost buggies, BRZ/GT86 boosty bois, 370s, gen coupes, MRS/MR2s, etc.... I'm mid pack with these guys. Most of the people locally run RT660s. The only person running the yokos is the aforementioned PAX leading STU Evo. I believe he is regionally and nationally competitive. No one really touches him locally. I don't think I'll really be missing out too much by going to RT660s over the yokos. Mainly I just want an improvement over RS4s that approximates the RE71Rs. I want that corner entry toss-ability the car used to have. Granted that was also back on stock suspension which was much more oversteer oriented.

Perhaps the one thing that may sway me is the fall off characteristics of the A052 as they heat cycle. If they do retain proportionally better grip than other tires as they heat cycle then maybe it won't hurt as much to daily it and I might lean towards it. But again the price hurts a bit. Right now the Yokos are 950 for a set on tire rack vs 640 for the RT660. The 300 would go towards the front bar as well as a bunch of old car problems that just suddenly turned up.

 

lol the tire debate will always go on no matter what year or forum youre on. Even if it’s a thread about swaybars.

I think that if everyone in your region is running RT660s tires that sets you up on an even playing field with the rest of the people you’re competing with. It would make it more fun definitely!
More money for fixing and buying other car parts. Amen

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