currently, my wife and i are planning to be there.

our only real issue will be childcare... finding someone to watch a set of infant twins and a toddler for the weekend isn't easy stuff ya know...

 

Man, even though I went around and around with the local shop (and some of the other local shops) about ideas for systems, they came right back to what they suggested in the first place while leaving me a few options if I am not satisfied.

Of course, I'm completely satisfied with the Clarion HU (that or the Alpine were both fine with me, but Clarion had the advantage for its price since it included the satellite receiver and Sirius, which I prefer).

I'm fine with the sub choice, although, I can always choose the Eclipse if I'm not happy.

I'm just wondering if the Polyglass Focals will give me the sound I want (they are more efficient than the kevlars), and I'm just not sure if the Memphis will give me the power I need.

But since they seem confident that this will be a great set up, I'll give it a try. All I can do is give them the benefit of the doubt, and if I'm not happy, I can change it and say, "I told you so!"

And luckily they will guarantee it all, and will refund my money 100% on any product I want to return or exchange.

As for warranties, I'll get a three-year warranty on everything except the Memphis amp. I get four years for that.

So if I play it, abuse it, bust it, whatever, I'll get it replaced for free.

Oh yeah, when I did a custom system in my ITR (back in 2000), I was not happy with the sub set up that the audio store recommended (a different shop in town). Everything else was great (Eclipse HU, PPI 4800, MB Quart premium mids/highs), but I wasn't happy with the bass. They gave me a 10w3 in a small enclosure to hold me over until what they recommended came in (JL three 10" subs in stealthbox made for integra). I actually loved the JL 10w3 and wanted to just do that since it took up little space and had great sound. But they said that I had too much power going to it and it would blow it.

So when the stealthbox came in, they put it in, and I was disappointed! I said, I want something else. Just give me two 10's in a ported enclosure. We tried that, but the box was huge, took up all my trunk and I still wasn't happy. So, they tried doing a custom set up with the stealthbox and two 10"s instead of three. Still not happy.

Finally, this was when the new Kicker L7's came out, they suggested going with two 8" L7's in a box. I wanted more bass, and less space taken up.

This proved to be a good set up for what I wanted, and I was finally happy. But it took so many enclosures to get me to that point. And it didn't cost me anymore money to go through those other enclosures. But, when I did the L7's, because they were new and going for a ton of money, I did have to pay an additional amount to cover the cost of both subs and enclosure.

So the shops are willing to do what it takes to make you happy. Even if they have to eat some cost, or sell something as "open box" or slightly used.

And because I had it installed by them, everything was warrantied. In fact, before I had the PPI4800, I had an Eclipse 4x75 amp, but I blew that sucker up in just two weeks. Completely fried it. That's why I upgraded to the PPI. I wanted more power and something that would be more reliable. It was bulletproof. Never overheated, never shut off. I ended up having that system in my ITR, WRX and CRX before I sold it with that car. And it's still kicking!

Woo hoo! A few hours to go before I get off work and can go down there to see and hear it.

Then the verdict will be in. I'll also ask them to get me the digital pics of the install process so I can post them.

I'll give you my feedback after I have a chance to listen to it tonight.

Thanks again! This has been one of the most informative and useful threads I've been a part of on here.

 

Yup yup.....

Just wondering one thing....Ive never seen any piece of electronic equipment (car audio) that has a warranty of over 1 year. I wonder you you are getting 3, 4, year warrantys.

 

If it's purchased through an authorized dealer, and they do the install work, they warranty the product for 3-4 years. At least, that's how the local shops work here.

I've had amps and speakers replaced in the past after one year, and it wasn't a problem with the shops.

In fact, I had a tinsel lead go out on one of my MB Quart speakers about two years after having them in my ITR. They replaced the whole speaker for free. They sent it back to MB Quart, MB Quart sent me a new speaker. In the meantime, they put a used one (same model) in its place to hold me until the new one was sent back.

Oh yeah, when that Eclipse amp blew up and I upgraded to the PPI, I was having problems with all kinds of static and cutting out with the new amp. Come to find out, the 5-volt Eclipse HU I had wasn't enough voltage for the PPI. So they upgraded me to an 8-volt Eclipse HU for no additional cost.

 

hey call me when you are off of work. I want to see this box, and maybe see if i can get the molding for it.

 

I'm leaving work at 5 mofo! I don't think it will be ready yet, so I'll wait until they are done.

I'll buzz ya.

 

I got the car back last night. First let me say:

1) My friend does an incredible job with installation/custom pieces/fit/setup, etc.

2) The Memphis Baby Belle actually sounds decent

- BUT -

I'm NOT HAPPY with it.

Here are my problems:

1) Not enough volume. My friend said that he tuned it for sound quality, not volume. He said the gain is turned down quite low, but that he can adjust the amp and crossovers for more volume, but it will sacrifice some sound quality. His explaination was that I will not hear the "Chelo" as well as I can now. It can still get loud, but not where I think it needs to be.

2) There is a reason I wanted a sealed enclosure - it provides, tighter, more accurate bass. Although there is sufficient bass from the ported enclosure, it is not the tight, clear bass that I wanted (a new enclosure may be in order). Of course, they did say it'll take a few days for the sub to loosen up and it will sound better. But still, although it goes low and is loud, it's not as clean, tight and accurate as I want.

3) My trunk rattles BAD!

4) I see no advantage to the Focal Polyglass coaxials and additional tweeters. In fact, I would rather have the KP series components for extra highs/mid bass. My friend did say that I have enough power in my amp to sufficiently power the Focal 165KP's, and not only would it give me more volume that I want, it would also keep the quality that I want.

5) I feel as though it may be a good idea to add rear speakers, whether in the SPOD or behind the seats. It seems as though something is missing in the cabin as far as sound goes.

The good:

1) Installation is awesome! I have to take pics and show you the current setup. The fiberglass enclosure is beautiful and my friend made me a custom cover that hides the sub and only shows the port. This allows me to put stuff in the trunk and not damage the speaker, or even allow it to be seen. The custom amp mount that he made for the Memphis Baby Belle is sweet as well. It's mounted at an angle on the driver's side corner of the trunk. It looks completely stock!

2) Although the Focal Polyglass mids/highs are not giving me what I want (volume, MB Quart like crispness), they are set up perfectly for quality sound and imaging.

3) The rest of the install was done very well.

4) Although volume is not as high as it will need to be for highway trips with the top down, the quality of sound is still quite good. Yes, it does get loud, but to me, it's not going to be loud enough for my tastes. Of course, this can be adjusted with the current setup, so we will have to see how much difference some tweaking to the amp will do.

5) The Clarion looks cool and seems to be fine. I was wondering if I should go to an Eclipse with 8volt output, but I'm not sure if that would make a huge difference. My friend who did the install said that the Clarion may only be 4volt output, but it acts more like an 8volt.

I'm going back to the shop tomorrow to have it tuned/adjusted due to my complaints.

They said to let them do that and have me drive the car over the weekend to listen and test it out. If I'm not happy by Monday, they will make changes.

My suggested changes include:

1) Upgrade to the Focal 165KP's

2) Add rear speakers for rear fill????????????

3) Change enclosure from ported to sealed?

4) Change to different amps. Either go with a different 4 or 5 channel amp, or two amps. One for mids/highs and another for the sub.

One of the other amps I was thinking of is the new Kicker 850.4 KX series (1000w amp total). Only problem is that it has a HUGE amount of power on mids and highs, and would need to be turned WAY down, but it would give out great power to the sub. Also, it's HUGE. I would have to get rid of my spare or sacrifice all my trunk to mount it. Right now, the Memphis takes up little room with the custom mount. If I did two smaller amps, I could do one on each side of the car in the corner and still have sufficient space in my trunk. Then I could probably choose better power options for my system. Something like a 125-150w x2 on mids/highs and 500-750w x1 on the sub. Yes? No?

I may need to consider some other amp set ups (other Memphis, Audison, Kicker, U.S. Amps, JL Audio, etc.).

Any comments/suggestions based on my feedback? Should I do rear fill speakers? Will changing to the 165KP's be a big difference? Do I need to use two amps? Aye!

 

ok -- i'm going to cover as much as possible and try to make it reasonably organized.

problems:
1. gains can be fixed, but they are generally NOT volume knobs. the goal of amp gains are to match the voltage output of the head to the amp's anticipated input voltage. they are either set correctly or set wrong. however, there is no harm in setting them lower than correct... but the opposite is not true.

2. a ported enclosure? with peaky and sloppy bass? no... say it ain't so. this is pretty typical. i doubt the sub's break in will dramatically improve this... but i don't know a whole lot about the TREO subs. chances are it will get worse, but i could be wrong.

3. Dave can help on that.

4. like i said before -- go w/ the KP's. the difference in sensitivity is almost non-existant... the KP's will be smoother as well.

5. your call.

the good:

1. glad to hear it... while i absolutely do not trust your guys on some aspects of their technical knowledge, from your stories, they seem to be above and beyond in customer service.

4. overcoming wind noise is tough w/ the top down... so, definitely give a top down run if you're not stuck like me w/ day after day of rain...

5. 4 V output? 8 V output? honestly - it just doesn't matter at this point. an 8 V output would potentially buy you some small improvement in noise reduction IF your amp had 8 V inputs. but amp gains should be matched to the head unit's output. so if you've got an amp w/ 4 V inputs and a HU w/ 4 V output -- there is no issue. 8 V outputs are NOT needed.

changes:
1. probably a good idea.
2. your call.
3. if the bass is sloppy and peaks at one specific note -- that's probably your porting. if it bothers you... go sealed. chances are your bass will be tighter and smoother.
4. 2 amps may be where you need to go to get your power balance right... hard to say though.
BUT the Kicker 850.4 KX series may be an option! the 215 Wrms is a 2 ohm number!! you do not have 2 ohm front speakers! the speakers determine the resistance, the resistance determines the output power.) AND when you bridge the rear channels they output 425 Wrms @ 4 ohms. your sub would need to be rewired for a 4 ohm TOTAL load, but this could work. (4 ohm total load would come from a 4 ohm SVC sub or a 2 ohm DVC sub wired in series.)
(i'm pulling up the Kicker manual to verify something, if i'm wrong above -- i'll correct it in an edit. this manual is taking forever to download... )

edit:
---------------
the manual finally got here... the Kicker may not be a good option afterall... and it could be from too much power.

still, this is confusing... at 12.5 V it's rated 4 x 90 Wrms @ 4 ohms. but at 14.4 V it's rated 4 x 175 Wrms @ 4 ohms !?! that just seems like too much power gain for that voltage increase...
cut from the Kicker manual:
[QUOTE]

 

Phil, over the years over doing car audio, I have discovered that 150wrms x 4 @ 4ohms is a magic number. Speakers seem to love it, as well as subs. All my last few cars had 150 per channel amps, and ran great. Not too little, not too much, juuuuuust right
_________________________________________________

I dont want to be a dick, but, I told you so.

Anyway, instead of giving you a speech......

first of all, the trunk rattle....check the license plate,a dn wrap a ziptie AROUND the trunk lock mechanism. Those are ve main culprits of rattles.

Now stop f*cking around with this shop (they are clueless, im sorry...I know your friend works there, but they dont know jack over there)

Get the Focal K2Ps....get an amp thats 150x4 @4ohms, and 200+ x 4 @2ohms....

Send 100 to the fronts, and 400-500 for the sub. If you still dont have enough power, get your ears checked.

 

AWESOME FEEDBACK!

Thanks.

Okay, I do plan on upgrading the Focals for sure. I was going to go 165KP, but I see that you also recommend 165K2P. So, which should I go for for that MB Quart like sound? I wanted to go with the 165KP because it won't cost me anything to bump up to them, but the 165K2P's would be quite a jump up in price. So, will the 165KP's be okay?

Well, I like the Kicker's power, but I don't like the Kicker's size. I am trying to conserve as much space as possible in my trunk area. I would much rather find two smaller amps and put one in each side of the trunk. Maybe something like a JL 300/2 for mids/highs and a 500/1 for the sub. Sound like an idea? Then it gets me to that magic number of 150x2 for mids highs and 500 on bass. The alternative is like you said. A 4x150 @ 4ohms.

As for the sub, something has to be done about that. I told them I wanted sealed, but they swore the ported would be better. Now, I realize that having a convertible makes it harder to get bass in the car. But, for those of you with sealed 10" subs, are you still getting adequate bass and still getting clean, clear, tight, hard hitting bass? Mine sounds like I have a Bazooka tube in the trunk. It's quite horrible. But it sure does rattle the hell out of things.

This almost makes me want to just get the JL10w6 Stealthbox made for the S2K. Would that be a better option? Otherwise, I could redo the TREO enclosure to be sealed or possibly switch to Eclipse.

You aren't the only ones saying, "I told you so." I called the shop this morning and told them this is not what I wanted, and I am not happy. They want to try to "tune" it differently and let me have the weekend to listen. I'll let them try, but I can tell you (and them) right now, that it's not going to change what I want.

At this point, I'd rather change the whole damn system. The Clarion HU is nice, but sometimes it's hard to read and use because of the tiny buttons. I'm tempted to get an Eclipse or the Alpine.

If my friend didn't do the installs here, I would not have even considered going to this shop. He's the only reason I trusted his opinion/recommendations and the quality of work.

But they just didn't LISTEN to me when I told them what I wanted and what I thought would sound best.

Now, we have wasted two days, my time, their time, and my money to come to the conclusion that the system is not what I wanted or asked for in the first place.

Why the hell don't they listen to the customer? It's the first rule in customer service/business these days.

Oh yeah, are rear speakers a good idea to help give me some rear fill and a little more "sound" within the car?