Well, It's installed, and it sucks.
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 79,195
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From: Home
There are companies out there that are placing stickers over the power ratings with higher power ratings on them. The amp is the same, it's just the rating is now claimed to be higher. This is just for people like speedfreak.
1. You may not get as much of a discount from a shop on an item as you could get online, but you will get a discount on the labor to install it. So if you are not doing the work yourself, then you are probably breaking even.
I have a 5 channel amp that puts out 50watts rms to each of the 4 speaker channels and I can CLEARLY hear the CD player at over 100 MPH. I don't yet have a sub. 45watts is not junk.
Are there more powerful amps out there? Of course. They cost more money though. Don't be fooled into thinking you need 300watts rms to EACH channel! Think about factory HUs in other cars. Most would be lucky to be pushing 10watts to each channel, and there is no amp there at all!
1. You may not get as much of a discount from a shop on an item as you could get online, but you will get a discount on the labor to install it. So if you are not doing the work yourself, then you are probably breaking even.
I have a 5 channel amp that puts out 50watts rms to each of the 4 speaker channels and I can CLEARLY hear the CD player at over 100 MPH. I don't yet have a sub. 45watts is not junk.
Are there more powerful amps out there? Of course. They cost more money though. Don't be fooled into thinking you need 300watts rms to EACH channel! Think about factory HUs in other cars. Most would be lucky to be pushing 10watts to each channel, and there is no amp there at all!
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,659
Likes: 0
From: Brooklyn
So I called my installer about the Alpine CDA-9807. He wants $350 installed (this includes installing the DCI and rewiring the amp)
He also said that he recommends Eclipse over all other HU brands. Will an Eclipse work with the DCi for our car?
He also said that he recommends Eclipse over all other HU brands. Will an Eclipse work with the DCi for our car?
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,657
Likes: 0
From: CA.WA.[TX].VA
The core of any good aftermarket system is....drum rol please.....the head unit!
One thing about good systems is that they really bring out the bad in low quality music
One reason is the bridging, which brings the THD from .08% to .3%
Your speakers can handle at least 100W RMS, and are getting briged 45. GET A NEW AMP!
His speakers have a continous power-handling of 100w, peak of 200w.
Power-handling ratings are just that--how much power a speaker can continuously handle. The Brahma in my trunk can handle 1600 watts (10,000 peak
). If I gave it 1600 watts, I'd get hearing and brain damage (moreso ) real quickGive your speakers as much clean power, as it will take to get you to the volume you want...100 dB should be as much as you'll ever need...if you have speakers w/a sensitivity of 88 dB, so you would only need 32 watts...
What? Not 100 like they can handle? Not 199?
Anyway...That said, I've got 500 watts to my fronts
Honorary Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 2,121
Likes: 3
From: Indian Land SC
You will get lots of opinions from this board, but the hard part is sorting through them to find the ones that are relavent to your needs.
Bear in mind I don't have any experience with the specific components you have installed. But I also don't have any prejudices against "stock head units" or "low power amps" or whatever. Be wary of advice that make absolute, blanket, "everybody" or "nobody" statements, or those containing no useful information but having plenty of opinions about how trashy your equipment is.
1. There is no doubt that you can build a crappy system using a stock HU, but MANY people have used the stock HU with very good results. I ran the stock HU for a year with a 50W X4 amp and good door speakers. I used a high-low converter and my system sounded significantly better than the stock system and better than some other owner's systems with after-market head units. It can work with a stock HU.
2. 4v outputs buy you next to nothing. Compared to a 1v output you can theoretically achieve a 6db increase in signal-to-noise ratio, but that's only the noise induced by the cables themselves, which in a good install is negligible. The higher HU output simply allows you to lower the input setting at the amp, which reduces the noise picked up by the cables running through your car. It does absolutly nothing for over-all sound quality, and in no way shape or form will it give you more power.
3. The "core" of any sound system is the speakers. Period. While you can argue that a poor signal source affects the output quality, it's the speakers that are the link between the electronics and your ears. Any home hi-fi nut wll tell you that, why are cars different? Just like your car's performance is limited most by "where the rubber hits the road" the sound you hear is influenced the most by the speakers. Typical home hi-fi people spend 30- 40% of the total system dollars on speakers.
4. Power is important, but not that important. Changing from 50 watts to 100 watts sounds significant, but in reality it's only a 3dB change, which is barely audible. Today's head units brag about 50 or 60 watts per channel, when in fact their amps are not capable of more than an honest 15 or 16 watts. The factory HU typically has less than 4 watts. The point is, your 40 watts is fine, unless it's "bogus watts". Is it 40 watts "RMS" or peak?. RMS is real power, peak power is how vacuum cleaners are rated, and they suck. (sorry, couldn't resist). Go by the RMS rating, it's the only one that has a real engineering definition and can be tested and proven.
5. You (most people) can hear .1% harmonic distortion, but usually only when listening to test tones in a quiet environment on a good system. When music is played, the ability to hear distortion decreases significantly, with some people being unable to hear distortion levels as high as 5 or 10%. Just like everybody thinks they drive better than 90% of everybody out there, 90% of people think they have "golden ears". Not so.
My advice - see if you don't have something installed wrong or adjusted wrong. Your description of how bad it sounds just doesn't sound right to me. Either your speakers are out of phase or they got the line-level converter connected wrong or like MacGyyver suggested the amp levels are all wrong. Something is not right, and you may have to take it to another shop to find out what it is. Just cruise by a local car shop and tell them "Hey, I just had this system installed and it doesn't sound right - could you just listen to it a minute?" Chances are they will be glad to point out somebody elses mistakes.
Good luck and let us know what you end up doing.
.
Bear in mind I don't have any experience with the specific components you have installed. But I also don't have any prejudices against "stock head units" or "low power amps" or whatever. Be wary of advice that make absolute, blanket, "everybody" or "nobody" statements, or those containing no useful information but having plenty of opinions about how trashy your equipment is.
1. There is no doubt that you can build a crappy system using a stock HU, but MANY people have used the stock HU with very good results. I ran the stock HU for a year with a 50W X4 amp and good door speakers. I used a high-low converter and my system sounded significantly better than the stock system and better than some other owner's systems with after-market head units. It can work with a stock HU.
2. 4v outputs buy you next to nothing. Compared to a 1v output you can theoretically achieve a 6db increase in signal-to-noise ratio, but that's only the noise induced by the cables themselves, which in a good install is negligible. The higher HU output simply allows you to lower the input setting at the amp, which reduces the noise picked up by the cables running through your car. It does absolutly nothing for over-all sound quality, and in no way shape or form will it give you more power.
3. The "core" of any sound system is the speakers. Period. While you can argue that a poor signal source affects the output quality, it's the speakers that are the link between the electronics and your ears. Any home hi-fi nut wll tell you that, why are cars different? Just like your car's performance is limited most by "where the rubber hits the road" the sound you hear is influenced the most by the speakers. Typical home hi-fi people spend 30- 40% of the total system dollars on speakers.
4. Power is important, but not that important. Changing from 50 watts to 100 watts sounds significant, but in reality it's only a 3dB change, which is barely audible. Today's head units brag about 50 or 60 watts per channel, when in fact their amps are not capable of more than an honest 15 or 16 watts. The factory HU typically has less than 4 watts. The point is, your 40 watts is fine, unless it's "bogus watts". Is it 40 watts "RMS" or peak?. RMS is real power, peak power is how vacuum cleaners are rated, and they suck. (sorry, couldn't resist). Go by the RMS rating, it's the only one that has a real engineering definition and can be tested and proven.
5. You (most people) can hear .1% harmonic distortion, but usually only when listening to test tones in a quiet environment on a good system. When music is played, the ability to hear distortion decreases significantly, with some people being unable to hear distortion levels as high as 5 or 10%. Just like everybody thinks they drive better than 90% of everybody out there, 90% of people think they have "golden ears". Not so.
My advice - see if you don't have something installed wrong or adjusted wrong. Your description of how bad it sounds just doesn't sound right to me. Either your speakers are out of phase or they got the line-level converter connected wrong or like MacGyyver suggested the amp levels are all wrong. Something is not right, and you may have to take it to another shop to find out what it is. Just cruise by a local car shop and tell them "Hey, I just had this system installed and it doesn't sound right - could you just listen to it a minute?" Chances are they will be glad to point out somebody elses mistakes.
Good luck and let us know what you end up doing.
.
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,068
Likes: 0
I would agree with modifry & MacGyver on this. You need to find out why your system sounds so bad before you start upgrading HU, amp or speakers. There's no reason it should sound as bad as you described.
BTW, at what volume (in %) setting on the HU does the sound start to distort? If you get distortion at all levels you need to turn the amp's gain down a bit.
There could be many other reasons for the poor sound quality from a phase or wiring problem to poor installation.....
BTW, at what volume (in %) setting on the HU does the sound start to distort? If you get distortion at all levels you need to turn the amp's gain down a bit.
There could be many other reasons for the poor sound quality from a phase or wiring problem to poor installation.....
