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Originally Posted by s2000Junky,Jan 27 2011, 11:27 AM
Ugh. It’s not about how much power you want to make, it’s about having a kit that doesn’t have a delay when you call it to inject. This single fault is the nature of the progressive type of system, there are several other "types of systems that don't operate this way. So if your seeing this delay situation and it’s a problem, then understanding why its there will help someone make the appropriate choice on resolving it. Their are alternatives, good for all power levels. I provided a link in the other thread where I have sourced my parts to replace the progressive controller, but retain the pump and tank. Cost is less then the cheapest AEM kit, and will function without a delay.
Without an injector type nozzle, like a fuel injector, wouldn't there always be some type of delay since the meth nozzles need some time to begin fulll spraying anyway? In a fuel system, fuel pressure is held and then you open and close the injector. Is there a comparable system for a meth kit - is that what you are trying to attempt?
No argument here. Just trying to understand the systems.
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From: Around
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From: Bergen County, NJ
Originally Posted by egprelude,Jan 27 2011, 04:04 PM
In a fuel system, fuel pressure is held and then you open and close the injector. Is there a comparable system for a meth kit - is that what you are trying to attempt?
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From: Bergen County, NJ
Originally Posted by s2000Junky,Jan 27 2011, 01:30 PM
Yeah, its not a matter of setting up properly, its that the progressive nature of the kit produces inadequate injection when its called upon because of the pump, your able to dodge the bullet for two reasons, your injection settings you want are higher then typical, this gives you more compensation room to adjust for, but the only reason why that can work for you is that you are drag racing, I will explain. Once you go from a dig and start injecting, the pump will remain injecting to the end of your run because there isn’t enough time between shifts for it to unprime and have to spool back up, the pump is primed, spooled and running until you finish.
On a street application such as what we are experiencing, being on and off the gas, you will never get injection when you want it because the pump has to re prime and spool every time its called on, (2-3 sec delay ave) and you cant tune around this because it fluctuates depending on how you apply the throttle and how much load is on the car/gear selection. You can imagine downshifting on hwy to pass and your car will never see injection in 3rd gear, that can be catastrophic done over and over depending on how much you rely on the stuff.
Your dodging a bullet, but a better more reliable and precise set up would be that of a single or dual stage where the pump is under full pressure at all times, and controlled by an electronic solenoid that engages 100% injection as soon as it gets a signal, no waiting for a progressive controller to send the signal to the pump which then needs time to spool and start injecting, by that time you are half way through the gear and running dry in on/off driving situations.
On a street application such as what we are experiencing, being on and off the gas, you will never get injection when you want it because the pump has to re prime and spool every time its called on, (2-3 sec delay ave) and you cant tune around this because it fluctuates depending on how you apply the throttle and how much load is on the car/gear selection. You can imagine downshifting on hwy to pass and your car will never see injection in 3rd gear, that can be catastrophic done over and over depending on how much you rely on the stuff.
Your dodging a bullet, but a better more reliable and precise set up would be that of a single or dual stage where the pump is under full pressure at all times, and controlled by an electronic solenoid that engages 100% injection as soon as it gets a signal, no waiting for a progressive controller to send the signal to the pump which then needs time to spool and start injecting, by that time you are half way through the gear and running dry in on/off driving situations.
I am not sure what your talking about the pump unpriming and respooling. Your pump is still stopping like the rest of us.
There is a checkvalve built into the pump so there is always meth behind that check valve. Electric motors spools up pretty much instantly.
If all you want is the line to be pressurized and full up to the solenoid then the setup above is not very different then a progressive system with a solenoid.
Only thing is that your system is either 100% on or off @ the set boost and cheaper if you dont already have a kit.
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^^^ The progressive controller is the issue, not the pump. Simply adding a solenoid before the injector wile retaining the progressive controller will likely add to the delay time, since it takes a typical 20psi before the solenoid will crack open, this means one more component to sense and react to pressure. The pump when responding from a progressive signal is not only slow to respond but delivers poor and potentially hazardes atomization. Higher pressure offers better atomization which equals more even burning across all cylinders and more power. With my version... and a version that has been used successfully by many for many years, I eliminate the progressive controller and replaced with a simple adjustable pressure switch, which will inject 100% at once. To further tailor my injection to my SC in how it builds boost, I chose to run it in two stages. So I have two pressure switches, two solenoids and two separate injectors with my nozzle choices in each, all of which is basically two separate injection kits but still utilizing the same pump and tank. For example, I can set one pressure switch to inject at vtec/4psi... And set the second stage to come on at say 7500rpm. But your injection points are endless depending on the pressure switch you choose. Here is where I sourced the parts, most of which are available in your town.
http://www.turbomirage.com/water-alcohol-i...parts-list.html
http://www.turbomirage.com/water-alcohol-i...parts-list.html
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For the guys that want to learn about the different type of injection systems available and thier pros/cons. Here is one of many, this one is good for starters.
http://www.iwsti.com/forums/water-meth-inj...on-systems.html
http://www.iwsti.com/forums/water-meth-inj...on-systems.html
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From: Around
I wouldn't wire the solenoid into a hobbs switch, I would wire it off the controller, or directly off the pump, so when the pump is activated, the solenoid opens.
That way they comes on @ the same time, no "additional "delay".
That way they comes on @ the same time, no "additional "delay".
