Anyone running Pro-Jay intake manifold?
01-04-2014, 07:10 PM
#22
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Here is a quick video using the new Pro-Jay B-Series manifold, the runners and plenum are identical to the K-Series manifold.
Using a 90mm T/B and 8 injector at 48psi Made 1099hp.
We are lookig for the right team to do testing.
Video link
Using a 90mm T/B and 8 injector at 48psi Made 1099hp.
We are lookig for the right team to do testing.
Video link
01-04-2014, 07:29 PM
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This is a comment I posted on Honda-Tech.
( We have been making manifold since 1996 for the rotary motor with great results. This year we were asked to design a manifold for the Toyota 2jz. After month of computer simulations the result was a well balanced manifold between Performance and looks. We all know how tricky and dangerous is to make new component, in some cases the chances are 50/50. The racing market is extremely dynamic and fast. And it's hard for Company's to tackle and survive in this environment.
( Research & Development ( R&D ) = Time and Money ) in other words how much money and time are you willing to invest in any particular project. The deeper you get with the detail, the more the final product cost.
Any way let me get back to the case in point, the 2jz manifold was track tested at 6.43 @218mph I think the R&D payed off. Well that R&D was used in the design of the
B and K Series manifold, also with great results.
Our formula is very simple, proper cfm. plus minimum air turbulence and high air velocity = horse power and torque. In our experience you don't need 5.5 litters of air volume to make 1100+hp we did that with less than 3 litters on a B-Series, just saying.
Hopefully all this rambling make some sense, and gives you an idea behind our madness. )
( We have been making manifold since 1996 for the rotary motor with great results. This year we were asked to design a manifold for the Toyota 2jz. After month of computer simulations the result was a well balanced manifold between Performance and looks. We all know how tricky and dangerous is to make new component, in some cases the chances are 50/50. The racing market is extremely dynamic and fast. And it's hard for Company's to tackle and survive in this environment.
( Research & Development ( R&D ) = Time and Money ) in other words how much money and time are you willing to invest in any particular project. The deeper you get with the detail, the more the final product cost.
Any way let me get back to the case in point, the 2jz manifold was track tested at 6.43 @218mph I think the R&D payed off. Well that R&D was used in the design of the
B and K Series manifold, also with great results.
Our formula is very simple, proper cfm. plus minimum air turbulence and high air velocity = horse power and torque. In our experience you don't need 5.5 litters of air volume to make 1100+hp we did that with less than 3 litters on a B-Series, just saying.
Hopefully all this rambling make some sense, and gives you an idea behind our madness. )
I find it extremely odd you balance between the manifold performing well and looking nice. Maybe just make one that performs and screw the aesthetics, that will cut down on your development costs (R&D).
In every case its 50/50 about a new product, it will either perform as designed or it wont. In any event, an ET (that's elapsed time) and trap speed is utterly meaningless to describe how effective the product solved the problems the stock manifold posed (I'm not sure what the stock plenums issues are on the F20, keen to hear them).
I'd be more interested to hear about the reversion pulses its tuned for, laminar flows you created, and eddy currents etc over a trap speed and ET.
Engines with less than 3.0 displacement have been making 1100HP+ since the 1980's that I know of... just saying.
01-04-2014, 08:35 PM
#24
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01-04-2014, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by AE85' timestamp='1388896188' post='22950283
Engines with less than 3.0 displacement have been making 1100HP+ since the 1980's that I know of... just saying.
Ummm......I believe he is referring to the plenum size being less than 3 liters, not the displacement of the b-series engine.
01-04-2014, 09:52 PM
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First - It's ok if don't care about looks, I do believe in have both Performance and looks.
Second - Not every case is a 50/50 if you have 17 years in intake design your chances are a little better don't you think?
Third - you can spend countless hour if front of a computer, spend days on a flow bench and Kill motors on the Dyno. But the Real True Test is when the car apply the Horse Power and Torque on the track. ( The track don't lie, so ET + Speed = Performance ) So to me and lots of other racers it is extremely important.
When a customer ask you if you can make an intake manifold better than the one they are running. And once you replace it the new one, and you reached the same power level than before but with 12psi less. That is performance.
Let me give you an other sample a customer is making 1220hp @ 36psi with a factory modified manifold. Changed to a Pro-Jay manifold and reached same power level
at only 29psi. and @ 33psi made 1315hp still 3psi under his original. That is 95 Horse Power Gain with 3 pound of Boost less.
Fourth - The factory intake manifold of a F20c was design to support 240hp, not bad at all. But if you want to take that 240hp and multiply it by 500% to create 1200hp.
And expect the manifold to perform efficiently that is wishful thinking. Air flow differently at vacuum than at 10psi and it will behave differently at 20 and so on, and so on. So to make 1200hp you would need need 50+psi with an After market manifold.
Thank you for your time....
Second - Not every case is a 50/50 if you have 17 years in intake design your chances are a little better don't you think?
Third - you can spend countless hour if front of a computer, spend days on a flow bench and Kill motors on the Dyno. But the Real True Test is when the car apply the Horse Power and Torque on the track. ( The track don't lie, so ET + Speed = Performance ) So to me and lots of other racers it is extremely important.
When a customer ask you if you can make an intake manifold better than the one they are running. And once you replace it the new one, and you reached the same power level than before but with 12psi less. That is performance.
Let me give you an other sample a customer is making 1220hp @ 36psi with a factory modified manifold. Changed to a Pro-Jay manifold and reached same power level
at only 29psi. and @ 33psi made 1315hp still 3psi under his original. That is 95 Horse Power Gain with 3 pound of Boost less.
Fourth - The factory intake manifold of a F20c was design to support 240hp, not bad at all. But if you want to take that 240hp and multiply it by 500% to create 1200hp.
And expect the manifold to perform efficiently that is wishful thinking. Air flow differently at vacuum than at 10psi and it will behave differently at 20 and so on, and so on. So to make 1200hp you would need need 50+psi with an After market manifold.
Thank you for your time....
01-04-2014, 09:56 PM
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Here is a video on the difference between sheet metal manifold vs aluminum casting manifold
Video link
Video link
01-04-2014, 10:15 PM
#29
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I care about the looks when I pick manifold, bad welds and stuff wont come near my car even if it performs well. It´s a combo of looks and performance for sure, you´re paying for it and want a nice product.
Jay, have you even seen any gains on a 500hp Honda?
Jay, have you even seen any gains on a 500hp Honda?
01-04-2014, 10:59 PM
#30
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First - It's ok if don't care about looks, I do believe in have both Performance and looks.
Second - Not every case is a 50/50 if you have 17 years in intake design your chances are a little better don't you think?
Third - you can spend countless hour if front of a computer, spend days on a flow bench and Kill motors on the Dyno. But the Real True Test is when the car apply the Horse Power and Torque on the track. ( The track don't lie, so ET + Speed = Performance ) So to me and lots of other racers it is extremely important.
When a customer ask you if you can make an intake manifold better than the one they are running. And once you replace it the new one, and you reached the same power level than before but with 12psi less. That is performance.
Let me give you an other sample a customer is making 1220hp @ 36psi with a factory modified manifold. Changed to a Pro-Jay manifold and reached same power level
at only 29psi. and @ 33psi made 1315hp still 3psi under his original. That is 95 Horse Power Gain with 3 pound of Boost less.
Fourth - The factory intake manifold of a F20c was design to support 240hp, not bad at all. But if you want to take that 240hp and multiply it by 500% to create 1200hp.
And expect the manifold to perform efficiently that is wishful thinking. Air flow differently at vacuum than at 10psi and it will behave differently at 20 and so on, and so on. So to make 1200hp you would need need 50+psi with an After market manifold.
Thank you for your time....
Second - Not every case is a 50/50 if you have 17 years in intake design your chances are a little better don't you think?
Third - you can spend countless hour if front of a computer, spend days on a flow bench and Kill motors on the Dyno. But the Real True Test is when the car apply the Horse Power and Torque on the track. ( The track don't lie, so ET + Speed = Performance ) So to me and lots of other racers it is extremely important.
When a customer ask you if you can make an intake manifold better than the one they are running. And once you replace it the new one, and you reached the same power level than before but with 12psi less. That is performance.
Let me give you an other sample a customer is making 1220hp @ 36psi with a factory modified manifold. Changed to a Pro-Jay manifold and reached same power level
at only 29psi. and @ 33psi made 1315hp still 3psi under his original. That is 95 Horse Power Gain with 3 pound of Boost less.
Fourth - The factory intake manifold of a F20c was design to support 240hp, not bad at all. But if you want to take that 240hp and multiply it by 500% to create 1200hp.
And expect the manifold to perform efficiently that is wishful thinking. Air flow differently at vacuum than at 10psi and it will behave differently at 20 and so on, and so on. So to make 1200hp you would need need 50+psi with an After market manifold.
Thank you for your time....
Firstly, you said balance, meaning compromise one for the other and so forth, not performance and looks. Looks isnt a nice weld, thats performance for reference.
Second, nope, statistically its still 50/50, it will work, or it wont, and you didnt reply to the issue the stock plenum has that this one solves. Very keen to hear more about that.
Third, its silly not to have ANY numbers or science in the design (which then we would would be talking about velocity and resonance etc) and just make one throw it down the track at if it does a good time its seen as a success? What a bizarre way to develop products. An intake is just one factor and even if you did back to back runs stock intake versus this one (which I dont think you have done) there are still LOTS of variables that would influece the ET other than the intake.
Why dont you post the F20 dyno plot showing the stock intake, then your intake replacing the stock one on the same motor with the same power at 12psi less? Thats incredible! You should have started with that result its amazing! Seriously. Can you please post that?