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Comptech NOVI1200 tune issues (dyno sheets, rate my tune!))
I just got back from my second tuning session and still having some issues
2001 AP1 with 173k miles
Comptech kit upgraded to novi1200
PLM Front mount
3.8 pulley (im seeing 8-10 psi max)
Aeromotive 340 (wired directly to battery)
ID 1000 injectors
AEM EMS V1
T1R EM sparrow exhaust
Test pipe
AEM X series wideband
First 2 dyno sheets are from the first tuning session, the last one is from the second "touch up" session.
During the first session my wideband was reading wonky, tuner had to work using tailpipe sniffer, and i was running out of fuel up top. After i got home i realized the car was running terrible on cold start. it would bog/sputter/stall until it warmed up. Tune was way rich i was getting 10 miles per gallon.
I wired my fuel pump directly to battery. brought the car back had them install a new wideband with o2 feedback. After the second session the car uses less gas (around 13-15mpg, and isnt spewing black smoke everywhere, seems to run smoother/faster. Tuner said im not running out of fuel anymore so i guess the direct wiring helped. But now im experiencing a throttle response/throttle tip in issue, whenever i get on the throttle quickly or give it a blip, it will lean out to as high as 22 on the AFR and hesitate before AFR stabilizes and it pulls normal. Cold start issue still persists. I'm getting a laptop tomorrow just so i can hook it up and mess with it myself, any input is appreciated
Also how does my power and torque curve look? whats with the flat spots around 3500 and 5500 rpm? at 3500 maybe a result of the throttle tip in issue causing a hesitation? not sure whats going on at 5500. is 320/207whp good for this setup?
Concur with afzan. You should be making 14.5 - 15.5 psi on a 3.4" pulley, Ap2 & Ap1 respectively. Are you running an Ap1 or an Ap2? I see you're going to 8500-8700 rpm, which leads me to assume Ap2? Otherwise I can't see why your tuner wouldn't be sending it to 9100 for an Ap1 unless he's having issues with fuel still up top. Those last few hundred RPM are pretty critical for making a couple extra PSI. If you're running an F22 you should be seeing roughly 14-15 psi at that RPM even with a FMIC, pressure drop shouldn't be that massive with a FMIC setup, definitely not 6-8 psi that you're missing. Check for belt slip and/or loose couplers. Personally I'd recommend anyone running a Novi setup at this point to just default to a GripTec pulley & Gates HD green belt. That way you're almost guaranteed no belt slip and advertised boost; it's essentially the gold standard at this point. Plus the Griptec pulley is a 2 piece design, so if you ever feel like running a smaller pulley all you need to purchase is another ring vs the whole setup. Is this a new SOS kit or used? I only ask because SOS has since added a second idler pulley to the mounting plate to increase belt tension. If you don't have this it can be easily retrofitted by simply drilling your current mounting plate; SOS sells the pulley and template separately for those people.
I'd say a setup like this on pump gas should be netting you a minimum of 400-420whp & 250-260 tq.
Can't comment on your AFR issues....Surprised people are still running V1s, what a dinosaur.
If you have your datalogs in AEMData or already converted to CSV format, you’re welcome to send them my way.
I can take a look at AFR, ignition curve, sensor behavior, and potentially other parameters like injector setup and sensor scaling, ignition and fuel tip-in, etc.
That power dip at 3500 could definitely have something to do with tip-in issue and that 5500 could be your VTEC switchover.
Oh, and, like everyone else had said your boost is way down. Are you sure your MAP sensor is correctly calibrated? Unless you’re running OEM map sensor which reads only up to 10ish PSI. I will say, the dyno (#s way down)seem to reflect low boost however doesn’t show clear signs of belt slip (you’ll usually see the power flat out or dive down) so:
- check for boost leaks first
- then listen for a loud squeal (belt slip) at higher RPM
- check your map sensor, and get back to us
P.S. I’m traveling this week but the week after I have some time to assess the data, if you send it my way.
Sorry everyone its a 3.8 pulley, not a 3.4 as i previously thought, does my power/boost seem normal now? Thanks EOE i will get some datalogs and have them uploaded
Sorry everyone its a 3.8 pulley, not a 3.4 as i previously thought, does my power/boost seem normal now? Thanks EOE i will get some datalogs and have them uploaded
Still off by 2-3 pounds but if you factor in the FMIC that should be about right I'd say.
Still off by 2-3 pounds but if you factor in the FMIC that should be about right I'd say.
thats what i was thinking as well, the boost is where it should be i think but the power is lacking? my concerns are mostly drivability though, ive uploaded a copy of my tune if anyone wants to take a look
AFR is one of the easiest things to get right and it's where the tuning begins. On your tune, it's not right. That could absolutely be due to the issues you mentioned with fueling and the wideband, but if so, then your car wasn't really tuned (because it's not possible to tune properly with issues like that) and needs to be retuned.
I took brief look at your tune and here's what I saw:
Your fuel map matches your dyno chart.
Fueling values are highest at 4500 rpm. Your dyno shows the lowest AFR here.
Not sure why your tuner didn't try to achieve a more stable AFR. You seem to have the most fuel where you need it least and the least fuel where you need it most. Especially if you were "running out of fuel up top", then the tuner should have tried adding fuel up top. Right now, the map shows absolutely no signs of that... It looks like even with the Boost Fuel Correct multiplier active, you would never exceed 60% duty cycle.
I would be concerned about these. Not sure if your IAT sensor has been deleted or relocated, but if not, these corrections are important.
No air temperature correction for fuel. This will result in significant fueling errors. With cooler incoming air, you won't have enough fuel. With hotter incoming air, you will have too much fuel.
No air temperature correction for ignition. This will leave power on the table with colder air and possibly invite knock with hotter air.
Interesting that your tune has a mixture of full boost comp (extending boost comp into vacuum to generate a semi-'VE' table) and standard boost comp where a throttle modifier is used below 100 kPa. I always found the throttle modifier didn't work well on my S2000 and resulted in worse drivability vs. going full boost comp and mapping all vacuum regions. This is more of a preference thing than an issue.
Without a log, it's hard to say much else. The ignition numbers seem reasonable at the data points I checked. I was running a few degrees more ignition timing, but yours seems safe.
AFR is one of the easiest things to get right and it's where the tuning begins. On your tune, it's not right. That could absolutely be due to the issues you mentioned with fueling and the wideband, but if so, then your car wasn't really tuned (because it's not possible to tune properly with issues like that) and needs to be retuned.
I took brief look at your tune and here's what I saw:
Your fuel map matches your dyno chart.
Fueling values are highest at 4500 rpm. Your dyno shows the lowest AFR here.
Not sure why your tuner didn't try to achieve a more stable AFR. You seem to have the most fuel where you need it least and the least fuel where you need it most. Especially if you were "running out of fuel up top", then the tuner should have tried adding fuel up top. Right now, the map shows absolutely no signs of that... It looks like even with the Boost Fuel Correct multiplier active, you would never exceed 60% duty cycle.
I would be concerned about these. Not sure if your IAT sensor has been deleted or relocated, but if not, these corrections are important.
No air temperature correction for fuel. This will result in significant fueling errors. With cooler incoming air, you won't have enough fuel. With hotter incoming air, you will have too much fuel.
No air temperature correction for ignition. This will leave power on the table with colder air and possibly invite knock with hotter air.
Interesting that your tune has a mixture of full boost comp (extending boost comp into vacuum to generate a semi-'VE' table) and standard boost comp where a throttle modifier is used below 100 kPa. I always found the throttle modifier didn't work well on my S2000 and resulted in worse drivability vs. going full boost comp and mapping all vacuum regions. This is more of a preference thing than an issue.
Without a log, it's hard to say much else. The ignition numbers seem reasonable at the data points I checked. I was running a few degrees more ignition timing, but yours seems safe.
Thank you for your assistance and feedback! My first tuning session was mostly unsuccessful because my wideband was malfunctioning the whole time, it wasnt until the second session that a new wideband was installed and the tuner supposedly "touched up the tune" using the new wideband and O2 feedback. your comments regarding the unstable AFR and lack of air temp correction is unsettling, makes me think my tuner didnt give a shit
during these pulls, I was feeling an intermittent (maybe intermittent because of throttle %?) bucking/hesitation around 4-5k rpm, not sure if that was there before or not. I did mess with the fuel accel values and that seemed to fix my throttle tip in issues. It feels much smoother now when blipping the throttle, when leaving from a stop it feels smoother and not lugging/stalling. are these values extreme and will they mess with other aspects of the tune? on the original tune dTPS trigger was set at 15, and sensitivity was 90%, i kept other values the same.
my VTEC is also set to engage at 3500, is that abnormally low? could this affect drivability?
Comptech NOVI1200 tune issues (dyno sheets, rate my tune!))
