Obviously you cannot read

It clearly says

$600 Dynotime in my post which includes tuning. Do I need to spell it out??

Commonsense would tell you that if someone says

$600 Dynotime

That was the money spent to tune the car..

What did you think I just spent $600 to make a bunch of passes on the dyno.

 

In point of fact you are being given bogus information. I have no idea why.

No tuning charges were included.
No dyno time was included.
Maybe he got this and other stuff free, but you probably won't.

I could twist the truth a little too (and still not be lying) and say that the total cost for my Comptech SC/AC was under $4k installed and runs 12.9's, but I'd rather tell the whole story and help people out, rather than giving them incomplete and misleading information.

I'm sure *everyone* here means well, but at about 320 WHP the stock injectors are actually already past the point where they work well, and that's all you're going to be able to get reliably with the stock injectors, no matter how you boost. The only way to get more than that with the stock injectors is to use a wet shot, which of course includes an additional injector. IOW, no matter how you boost, if you stick with the stock injectors you're limited to around 320 WHP *peak*. A PD blower or turbo will give you a flatter torque curve and power curve, while a centrifugal yields a peaky powerband that is (arguably) easier on the other components.

Once you change the injectors you also have to change the ECU, and the new ECU has to be tuned. A good tuner isn't cheap, and on top of his fees there will also be charges for the dyno time. Once that's done you are likely to want more traction, and once you upgrade the rear tires the clutch is going to suffer. Upgrade the clutch and in combination with the additional torque the chance of other driveline components failing goes up rapidly (though much will depend on your driving style). All this cost money, and those who gloss over it are just selling you a bill of goods.

For maximum power a turbo is the best choice, but most people (not all, but most) find that belt driven boost is a better choice for the street (regardless of the type of car, and of course not including cars that come stock with a turbo). Centrifigual superchargers (Comptech and Vortech) make the least amount of torque, but they are the most popular type (in general, not S2k specific) because they are easy to install and provide a good boost in power while retaining near-stock reliability (of the entire driveline, not just the engine).

You are unlikely to be dissipointed with a Comptech or Vortech SC/AC. They've been around for years and are pretty well sorted out. NO system is guaranteed to be totally trouble free (anything can fail), but these systems have been thoroughly tested and debugged over a long period and problems are rare.

 

RED MX5

READ the above post before you make any more comments.

My post CLEARLY STATES ALL COST INVOLVED IN MY SETUP including dyno time and tuning which is what the $600 is.

Nothing you have said thus far makes any sense if you would just slow down and read before making your self look like an a$$.

Open your eyes and read.

 

[QUOTE=PRS2K,Aug 8 2006, 08:09 AM] There were no Flaws in my statement. I never said the guy did not have a basic setup. I pointed out exactly what he had a Supercharger with

 

My mistake. Somehow I missed the dyno time when I read your "price list." My bad.

Still, I think you're glossing over a great deal of the expense involved in getting under 12-second quarter mile times (recall, that is what the original poster asked about). We've seen quicker times using the stock diff and axles, but the driver is such an important factor and we know that most people who are running sub-12-second quarters have made extensive driveline mofifications.

Let's talk about what it actually takes to make the car capable of 11.9's in the hands of an *average* S2000 owner (I do not think the OP is an experienced drag racer). I think that's what the OP was asking about (and please correct me if I'm wrong). PRS2K, right off the bat the first thing I'll point out is that *you* are already very close to that goal, so by virtue of your experience you have superior knowledge. Basically all I can do is make educated guesses, based on experience with other cars and the experiences of other S2kI members. Maybe I should just ask questions, but that sometimes comes across as sarcasm.

What does it take to get the average owners car to the point where he (the owner) can run the quarter mile in under 12 seconds?

I might be wrong, but I don't think it's going happen on the OEM tires. I'd budget for larger wheels and tires. Since the clutch in the S2000 is like a fusable link protecting the rest of the driveline the power needed combined with the extra traction is going to be too much for the stock clutch. Upgrading the clutch removes the fusable link, so some other part of the driveline becomes the weak link. From what I have seen here on S2kI, this is most often the differential, and apparently the Comptech reinforcement doesn't actually help much. I doubt that the differential will cause problems in all cases, depending on the drivers technique, but unless we know the driver can keep the stock diff alive we'd better price in a differential upgrade. The same logic applies to axles. Better figure it in the budgtet just in case the driver turns out to be the type who will constantly blow the stock diff (once given all that additional power and grip).

I can only speak for myself, but I wouldn't try to build a sub-12-second S2000 without planning for some possible driveline failures and upgrades down the line.
(Maybe we should do a poll. )

Sorry about the "dyon time" thing, but doesn't it take more than just a power boost to break into the 11's?
(If not, how much power does it take to run 11.9 or better on the OEM tires?)

 

Absolutely! Centrifugual blowers make impressive peak numbers, but don't add any grunt at all. At the same peak power levels a well designed turbo will be a LOT faster than a centrifigual SC, EVERY TIME!

From what I've see at CCR, most people want the impossible, because they want to maximize performance without sacrificing reliability or increasing their operating costs. To advise them well we have to determine both their priorities and their budget. We install as many turbos as belt driven superchargers, and the cars with turbos have more problems than the cars with belt driven superchargers. More often than not this is due to the owner upping the boost, but turbocharged cars also have more problems with driveline failures, even if the owner doesn't give in to the temptation to repeatedly up the boost until something fails. For a fun boost in peak power centrifigual blowers are hard to beat, because they're easy on the rest of the hardware. For someone wanting more grunt on the autocross course a PD blower is hard to beat. For maximum *performance*, you can't beat a turbo with a stick.

 

Above is a timeslip of mine from about 2 weeks ago. I will agree w/ you in that it is not easy to make an 11second pass w/ 350whp on stock tires but it is very possible.

Most people couldn't believe that I pulled 1.86 60ft w/ Hankook K106's <--These tires are very cheap about $270shipped for a set of 4 and are FAR less superior then the stock tires. A 1.76 60ft would have resulted in an 11second pass. I will also agree with you when you say stock tires will not get it done. That doesn't mean drag radials "street tires" won't.

Keep in mind ET is based on driver. I have seen cars trap 120mph and not be able to break into the 11's mostly FWD cars w/ no traction.

The person who started this post asked a question of what he would need to run 11's The answer is 350whp.

 

That's correct. I think I can shift my goal of running sub 12 second 1/4 miles to running low 12's, and that would make me happy. So my new goal is having around 350 whp with a comptech. Now with 350whp on a comptech should I have to worry about driveline or engine failures? Can I use a stock clutch and differential(sp?)?

 

Have you looked at the Vortech SC? Out of the box it makes more HP. Kevin (NoS8NT) can attest to the HP #'s possible with that setup.

 

wouldn't a s/c kit and gears, i.e. 4.57s, do the trick for a 12 sec pass?