KraftWerks - "Love It or Leave It" Program
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 10
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All of this is very interesting. Good comments and a bit of nice conjecture regarding the future of Kraftwerks.
This is what I know:
Kraftwerks is the only kit on the market that offers a very quiet and very efficient blower. The blower is currently limited to about 10 psi simply because the impeller is currently limited to 100,000 to 105,000 rpm. That could change if someone could just make a sun shaft that can handle a little more RPM.
G-Spec has cryotreated the sunshaft, rollers and annulus and uses ABEC 7 ceramic bearings throughout the blower that may in fact be the solution to this limitation. But maybe not. The sunshaft could also be remanufactured of a much harder steel alloy as well- and perhaps achieve even better more reliable results. A full 120,000 impeller speed out of the C 30-94 would yield a full 14 to 15 psi more than enough to put the Rotrex at the top of its' game.
So to suggest the KW kit is limited to 360 whp may be a bit premature. Guys are getting 410 whp with a 90 mm pulley and a good quality tune. So let's not rule out the possibilities.
Furthermore KW has designed a new mecahnical support for the outer bearing of the tensioner system (first proposed by G-Spec) that should give the ceramic bearings and steel pulley some real longevity. Also those bearings can be upgraded to hand made ABEC 7's rated at about 50,000 rpm for as little as $160. Then they would last at least 100,000 miles or more according to the bearing manufacturers.
Furthermore KW has replace the two inch idler pulley with a three inch Honda stamped pulley that should similarly last a good long tme. A normal pulley life in a serpentine drive simply because it is revovling at a much slower speed. Very OEM in fact.
The only thing KW has not addressed is the water pump pulley which in fact has cracked on a number of customers and occasionally at really bad times. Desert Wanderer has the most miles on the KW kit and has had two such OEM water pump pulleys fail on him.
Fortunately there is an 8mm thick billet 7075 pulley available through Darmo Racing Products in Houston Texas that comes with a lifetime warranty. This pulley was designed by G-Spec but is manufactured exclusively through Darmo Racing. G-Spec only designs parts. Darmo Racing Products 281.831.6331 is positioned to build them.
So let's keep a little faith in Oscar Jackson Senior and Junior and take advantage of this rather uinque offer to test drive the kit as it has evolved and watch and see if the last few elements don't come together in time. G-Spec and it's supporting vendors are going to do everything possible to see this one through.
This is what I know:
Kraftwerks is the only kit on the market that offers a very quiet and very efficient blower. The blower is currently limited to about 10 psi simply because the impeller is currently limited to 100,000 to 105,000 rpm. That could change if someone could just make a sun shaft that can handle a little more RPM.
G-Spec has cryotreated the sunshaft, rollers and annulus and uses ABEC 7 ceramic bearings throughout the blower that may in fact be the solution to this limitation. But maybe not. The sunshaft could also be remanufactured of a much harder steel alloy as well- and perhaps achieve even better more reliable results. A full 120,000 impeller speed out of the C 30-94 would yield a full 14 to 15 psi more than enough to put the Rotrex at the top of its' game.
So to suggest the KW kit is limited to 360 whp may be a bit premature. Guys are getting 410 whp with a 90 mm pulley and a good quality tune. So let's not rule out the possibilities.
Furthermore KW has designed a new mecahnical support for the outer bearing of the tensioner system (first proposed by G-Spec) that should give the ceramic bearings and steel pulley some real longevity. Also those bearings can be upgraded to hand made ABEC 7's rated at about 50,000 rpm for as little as $160. Then they would last at least 100,000 miles or more according to the bearing manufacturers.
Furthermore KW has replace the two inch idler pulley with a three inch Honda stamped pulley that should similarly last a good long tme. A normal pulley life in a serpentine drive simply because it is revovling at a much slower speed. Very OEM in fact.
The only thing KW has not addressed is the water pump pulley which in fact has cracked on a number of customers and occasionally at really bad times. Desert Wanderer has the most miles on the KW kit and has had two such OEM water pump pulleys fail on him.
Fortunately there is an 8mm thick billet 7075 pulley available through Darmo Racing Products in Houston Texas that comes with a lifetime warranty. This pulley was designed by G-Spec but is manufactured exclusively through Darmo Racing. G-Spec only designs parts. Darmo Racing Products 281.831.6331 is positioned to build them.
So let's keep a little faith in Oscar Jackson Senior and Junior and take advantage of this rather uinque offer to test drive the kit as it has evolved and watch and see if the last few elements don't come together in time. G-Spec and it's supporting vendors are going to do everything possible to see this one through.
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,149
Likes: 17
From: Raleigh, NC
I must say this is a great offer on Kraftwerks part. Honestly I have come across quite a few FI s2000s and you know it's pretty kickass to know that I have put down more whp than anyone I've met while still rocking the OEM exhaust.
That's not to say someone couldn't buy an SOS kit and go 13psi and win the dyno showoff. But we forget one small detail. Power delivery. The KW kit still put down a faster lap time vs the upgraded SOS kit. (which let's not forget put of the box doesn't make more power like it did in the d-sport comparison)
I have my reasons for picking the KW kit over the SOS kit. Firstly it's the heatsoak proof air/air intercooler. 2nd because the KW kit is the stealth bomber of FI. I put down 355whp and the only thing you hear is the air being sucked into the big filter under the hood. No S/C whine, no loud exhaust required.
Do I wish the KW kit was capable of more? Of course I do. But realistically I'd be looking at 2k for k-pro another 1k to uncork the exhaust, and then oh boy. The fuel system. This kit is basically right at the limit of what an 06 is capable of without a significant jump in cost.
But for now I have the peace of mind that I make great power wo the worry or hassle of having to get my car tuned or anything all while putting down excellent power and flying under the radar. It works for me.
That's not to say someone couldn't buy an SOS kit and go 13psi and win the dyno showoff. But we forget one small detail. Power delivery. The KW kit still put down a faster lap time vs the upgraded SOS kit. (which let's not forget put of the box doesn't make more power like it did in the d-sport comparison)
I have my reasons for picking the KW kit over the SOS kit. Firstly it's the heatsoak proof air/air intercooler. 2nd because the KW kit is the stealth bomber of FI. I put down 355whp and the only thing you hear is the air being sucked into the big filter under the hood. No S/C whine, no loud exhaust required.
Do I wish the KW kit was capable of more? Of course I do. But realistically I'd be looking at 2k for k-pro another 1k to uncork the exhaust, and then oh boy. The fuel system. This kit is basically right at the limit of what an 06 is capable of without a significant jump in cost.
But for now I have the peace of mind that I make great power wo the worry or hassle of having to get my car tuned or anything all while putting down excellent power and flying under the radar. It works for me.
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 459
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I don't really have a dog in this hunt but I'll just give my $.02
I think it's a great concept and it says a lot about the manufacturer that they vouch for their product like this. With that said, I don't think many will take them up on the offer. If you like the KW kit enough to take the plunge I doubt you'll take it off within 30 days. I don't know how long it took everyone to install their kits, but my SoS took me some time. The thought of going through that again wouldn't be taken lightly.
Costs aside I think the decision will be based on what you really want. The pros/cons of all the kits are well documented here. I wouldn't let a couple of hundred dollars (if it is that...I don't know) get in the way. The actual cost of my kit in comparison to others did not influence me in my decision. I got what I wanted at a reasonable price.
If the KW kit appeals to you, I'd say go for it. This is just icing on the cake.
I think it's a great concept and it says a lot about the manufacturer that they vouch for their product like this. With that said, I don't think many will take them up on the offer. If you like the KW kit enough to take the plunge I doubt you'll take it off within 30 days. I don't know how long it took everyone to install their kits, but my SoS took me some time. The thought of going through that again wouldn't be taken lightly.
Costs aside I think the decision will be based on what you really want. The pros/cons of all the kits are well documented here. I wouldn't let a couple of hundred dollars (if it is that...I don't know) get in the way. The actual cost of my kit in comparison to others did not influence me in my decision. I got what I wanted at a reasonable price.
If the KW kit appeals to you, I'd say go for it. This is just icing on the cake.
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,014
Likes: 1
From: NJ shore
Originally Posted by killerbee_vr6,Oct 11 2009, 03:00 AM
Congrats? thanks for proving my point.
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,014
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From: NJ shore
Originally Posted by apxking,Oct 11 2009, 04:15 PM
if they are not willing to under cut great companies like Comptech, then why should buy their product...
There is a new company called CT-engineering that some their guys started after it failed and they are doing the sc'r.
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,014
Likes: 1
From: NJ shore
Originally Posted by Slows2k,Oct 12 2009, 12:33 PM
Stitos, re read your terms of service. NO PERSONAL ATTACKS.
Calling someone a idiot qualifies.
Calling someone a idiot qualifies.
If he wants to argue about why he thinks this offer is so great then that is what he should do. He was making a rather poor attempt at discrediting my opinion because he didn't have any real argument to offer.
As I pointed out, I DO have experience with Forced Induction the s2k.
I don't think the KW product is worth its price tag, several people seem to agree.
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,479
Likes: 1
From: West Las Vegas
Originally Posted by GrandMasterKhan,Oct 11 2009, 07:49 PM
I have my reasons for picking the KW kit over the SOS kit. Firstly it's the heatsoak proof air/air intercooler. 2nd because the KW kit is the stealth bomber of FI. I put down 355whp and the only thing you hear is the air being sucked into the big filter under the hood. No S/C whine, no loud exhaust required.
Do I wish the KW kit was capable of more? Of course I do. But realistically I'd be looking at 2k for k-pro another 1k to uncork the exhaust, and then oh boy. The fuel system. This kit is basically right at the limit of what an 06 is capable of without a significant jump in cost.
Do I wish the KW kit was capable of more? Of course I do. But realistically I'd be looking at 2k for k-pro another 1k to uncork the exhaust, and then oh boy. The fuel system. This kit is basically right at the limit of what an 06 is capable of without a significant jump in cost.
-Honest, reliable service
-Prompt answered questions
-blower efficiency per pound of boost
-proven performance on the track
-reliable parts
I have this opinion. I dont care how much this costs. Half of the reason people swing from ASM's nuts is because how much it costs. Same with gucci, louis vuitton, chanel, and any other ridiculously marked up product. The price increase assures buyers are passionate about the kit and ARE BUYING IT BECAUSE OF ITS RARE FACTOR. No offense, but everyone has a 300 dollar AEM intake, which honestly makes me not want one. For every customer that doesnt buy it because its cheap, another will buy it simply because its more expensive. Im sorry if some people dont understand this marketing strategy. there is no real competition for the kw kit, their kit is really nothing like any of the others and are basically in their own niche market.
Has anyone seen the horsepower freaks turbo kit for the E46?.... well last time i checked they have it priced at 18,000 dollars. AND FOR WHAT?...... a 400% mark up? yet im sure the allure of the cost entices many buyers. The kit also has a solid reputation as does kraftwerks that can back up every kit they sell.
I had a failure with my kit.... and its costing me over 5,000 in engine mods just to come back from it. Its easy to pick apart a product and place blame on somebody else. Fact is, the kit very reliable but not perfect. The argument that it only makes 360hp is absurd. An AEM intake only makes 10hp. Some people want 10 extra hp, some people want 160 extra hp, and some people want 800 hp. Thats like saying an AEM intake sucks because itdoesnt make 800 hp. the purpose of the kit is NOT to make the most horsepower on the planet and BREAK every dyno in california with its power. Its too accentuate the already fun to drive car.
I think they could charge 8 grand and I would be fine with it. If I couldnt afford it then I would get something else. You are paying for an idea.... not all the plastic parts in the box. If you think you can make your own kit for 500 less, then go to home depot and fab up your own!!!!!!
Either u pay the asking price or go home. Its the manufacturers job to select their target audience. I could make a kit and sell it for 10 bucks, and not a damn person would buy it. So saying a price decrease would increase kit sells is LUDACRIS!.
I love this blower.... and KW is a great company. Period!!
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,347
Likes: 1
From: Pittsburgh, PA
Sorry guys I know that im still a FI noob but if your looking for more power with a cheaper price tag then what about this kit??
http://www.rotrexsuperchargers.co.uk/Produ...s/s2000stg3.htm
http://www.rotrexsuperchargers.co.uk/Produ...s/s2000stg3.htm
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 133
Likes: 26
Hmm the Kit costs $5562.54 on todays conversion rate AND "This conversion requires the Hondata K-pro or AEM EMS ECU to complement the installation."
Hmmm.. ok $2000 (maybe less but seen some people say it is this much) more Plus Tuning time on a Dyno (lets say $500 to be fair)
So your at $8062.54? Ok how is that better than $5995? You Pay another $2000 for a kit that can make more power. The discussion wasnt about having the highest HP kit on the market, correct me if I am wrong here, right?
Hmmm.. ok $2000 (maybe less but seen some people say it is this much) more Plus Tuning time on a Dyno (lets say $500 to be fair)
So your at $8062.54? Ok how is that better than $5995? You Pay another $2000 for a kit that can make more power. The discussion wasnt about having the highest HP kit on the market, correct me if I am wrong here, right?