Nitrous set up on the S2K...
Originally Posted by Scorpion,Feb 21 2006, 02:25 AM
I'm so impressed my the intellagence level in this thread, there is so much good information being put out.
I'm probably older than most of them, and I've done some homework/research. Compared to going with a supercharger or turbo setup, nitrous is a lot cheaper. If I were going to be driving my car at WOT all day, street racing and whatnot, then I would probably go with a supercharger setup. But given the fact that I can remove the bottle easily and still run in the A-Stock class in auto-x, but put the bottle in easily when I want to run the quartermile, nitrous seems like the best set up for me and my needs/wants.
Originally Posted by Scorpion,Feb 21 2006, 02:25 AM
vbeachboy, NO2 is a great power booster, but is very hard on pistons. Dry shots are to be avoided, and on a wet shot I wouldn't run more than a 50 without backing off the timing abit, or run a colder plug. You can get a basic setup for around $500, if you want purge, bottle warmer, management ect. ect. then you can look at around the $1000 range. Hope this helps.
I was hoping to hear from people who have installed a setup like this on the S2K though, and hopefully pick their brain a little about installation.
Nitrous oxide is an oxidizer, not a fuel. It allows the engine to move more oxygen than the engine's displacement and rpm can support naturally aspirated.
NA engines only have a max of 14.7 psi difference between intake manifold (about ambient pressure @ WOT) and cylinder at BDC (near vacuum) to drive air into cylinder. Engines with boost have higher manifold pressure, to help drive more air into cylinder. NOS setups squirt nitrous oxide (about 1/3 Oxygen and 2/3 Nitrogen) directly into manifold through a fixed jet and solenoid to.
Since the engine on nitrous (or boost) now moves more oxygen, you MUST add more fuel to keep a safe air/fuel ratio near 12:1 or 13:1. This extra fuel contains BTU's of heat that are released on combustion and add the extra power.
The main thing is to add 'just enough' fuel to support proper combustion at a safe Air/Fuel ratio with the extra oxygen delivered by nitrous shot.
There is no cheap, reliable way to measure flow of fuel, air, or nitrous. This means verifying safe A/F ratio with wideband O2 sensor at different loads.
A wet system has pre-engineered fixed orifice jets in the nitrous and fuel spray bars that flow the right proportions of both, as long as you don't mix them up. Of course these orifices were sized based on design supply pressures for both fuel and notrous. Bottle heater maintains nitrous pressure until nearly empty. Fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator, and fuel piping must be sized large enough to maintain design fuel pressure at the new higher flow rate.
If your injectors are large enough to deliver the extra fuel instead of a fuel solenoid and jet, a dry system is can work safely. Some of the new dry systems (Venom) have the smarts (piggyback controller) to talk to the ECU and turn themselves off if the air/fuel ratio gets dangerously lean.
NA engines only have a max of 14.7 psi difference between intake manifold (about ambient pressure @ WOT) and cylinder at BDC (near vacuum) to drive air into cylinder. Engines with boost have higher manifold pressure, to help drive more air into cylinder. NOS setups squirt nitrous oxide (about 1/3 Oxygen and 2/3 Nitrogen) directly into manifold through a fixed jet and solenoid to.
Since the engine on nitrous (or boost) now moves more oxygen, you MUST add more fuel to keep a safe air/fuel ratio near 12:1 or 13:1. This extra fuel contains BTU's of heat that are released on combustion and add the extra power.
The main thing is to add 'just enough' fuel to support proper combustion at a safe Air/Fuel ratio with the extra oxygen delivered by nitrous shot.
There is no cheap, reliable way to measure flow of fuel, air, or nitrous. This means verifying safe A/F ratio with wideband O2 sensor at different loads.
A wet system has pre-engineered fixed orifice jets in the nitrous and fuel spray bars that flow the right proportions of both, as long as you don't mix them up. Of course these orifices were sized based on design supply pressures for both fuel and notrous. Bottle heater maintains nitrous pressure until nearly empty. Fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator, and fuel piping must be sized large enough to maintain design fuel pressure at the new higher flow rate.
If your injectors are large enough to deliver the extra fuel instead of a fuel solenoid and jet, a dry system is can work safely. Some of the new dry systems (Venom) have the smarts (piggyback controller) to talk to the ECU and turn themselves off if the air/fuel ratio gets dangerously lean.
(BioChem student here). Nitrous Oxide (which is N2O, NOT NO2) makes more power by increasing the oxygen content in the combustion chamber. The nitrogen simply acts as a buffer for the Oxygen. Oxygen is a highly explosive gas. Oxygen doesn't even need a flame to ignite (any hot surface will suffice). Like most people here, I agree that you should go with a wet shot (direct port if you can afford it). Best of luck.
Kyle Ritchie
Kyle Ritchie
Originally Posted by herecomesboost,Feb 21 2006, 09:00 PM
(BioChem student here). Nitrous Oxide (which is N2O, NOT NO2) makes more power by increasing the oxygen content in the combustion chamber. The nitrogen simply acts as a buffer for the Oxygen. Oxygen is a highly explosive gas. Oxygen doesn't even need a flame to ignite (any hot surface will suffice). Like most people here, I agree that you should go with a wet shot (direct port if you can afford it). Best of luck.
Kyle Ritchie
Kyle Ritchie
I knew that!Anyway, why direct port over a wet system? What's the advantage? I won't go as far to say money is no object, because of course it is, but I'm willing to pay what it takes to run a safe shot of nitrous, rather than try to do it the cheap way. An excellent nitrous set up is still half the cost of a supercharger.
Direct port will insure a precise/equal mixture of nitrous/fuel to EACH cylinder. Whereas, a simple wet system, just sprays the nitrous/fuel mixture in the direction of the throttle body/intake manifold, resulting in unequal distribution in each cylinder.
Kyle Ritchie
Kyle Ritchie
Direct Port systems also require taking off the intake manifold, drilling and tapping holes in them, and reinstallation. Plus the direct port system will cost more. I believe that one of the big nitrous companies has a direct port system that doesnt require drilling and tapping, but instead uses the same location as the fuel injectors to inject N2o/fuel. It may be NOS.
Originally Posted by BigpoppaHurtm,Feb 22 2006, 07:40 PM
Direct Port systems also require taking off the intake manifold, drilling and tapping holes in them, and reinstallation. Plus the direct port system will cost more. I believe that one of the big nitrous companies has a direct port system that doesnt require drilling and tapping, but instead uses the same location as the fuel injectors to inject N2o/fuel. It may be NOS.
The more I think about this, and think about the way the nitrous system works, I believe that if you run a wet system, and keep it at a 50 shot, it can definitely be as safe as a supercharger, if not more. For my desire to have something that I can put in and take out fairly quickly (the bottle anyway) I'm thinking this might be the way I'm going to go.
Thanks for your help to those that posted serious replies. I'd still love to hear from anyone that's actually ran a nitrous setup on their S though.
Thanks for your help to those that posted serious replies. I'd still love to hear from anyone that's actually ran a nitrous setup on their S though.
Oh forgot to mention I once met a guy who was actually running a dry 80 shot on his S. It was running fine and hadnt given him any trouble till that point or so he said. Never saw him again though so dont know how his motors doing today.



