Turbo RoadRace S2000
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,108
Likes: 4
This oil cooler ad's over 2 quartz of oil to the system. 
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.a...15&autoview=sku
I am not saying use this oil cooler, I am just posting this as a example of things that are out there. Gaining oil capacity can be just as important when it comes to cooling.
J. R.
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.a...15&autoview=sku
I am not saying use this oil cooler, I am just posting this as a example of things that are out there. Gaining oil capacity can be just as important when it comes to cooling.
J. R.
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 5,962
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From: Hong Kong/California
Originally Posted by CourageOO7,Jul 6 2008, 08:17 PM
Alright...reading all this has me considering a vertical mount setup. JR and I may get together to fabricate something together (cuz we both have so much time).
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 920
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From: Vallejo
Ok guys,
This is the last I'm going to post on this. I really wasn't looking for an argument. The oil cooler I have (the same one I used on the Supercharger) is larger than that on the EVO, and a lot of other turbo cars. Not sure on the 911 turbo ( I assume were talking about the 996 and newer) as the 993 and older were entirely cooled by the oil coolers as they were air cooled motors.
The oil cooler I have is rated for somewhere around 35-40K BTU/Hr. The largest Setrab cooler they make is roughly double that. Blocking that much more of the radiator, will have some detrimental effects, but how much is hard to tell.
The fluidyne oil cooler posted above I doubt will get much airflow through it if it is sandwiched between the intercooler and radiator. It's just too thick. The S2000 does not have a lot of other places to put a good sized oil cooler. If someone wants to try it they are going to need to figure out a place to put one.
I've poked a bit of fun at JR, as he does everything but call me an idiot. Considering he has never tried hardcore tracking a Turbo S2000 himself the best I can tell, I find this a bit comical. He sold his turbo s2000 and currently runs an NSX. Granted he has some NSX experience, but they are not the same car. It is very easy to arm chair quarterback a solution from the couch. His advice, while I think is valid for increasing cooling, has not been tested, and might or might not work. If it was that easy a lot of people would be doing it. As far as I can tell there are very few, if any, running reliably. I took a chance, weighted the results, and decided that there was more risk than I was willing to try. Could I have done more, sure. Would it have cost more, absolutely. I have never said it was impossible, just not easy. I would suggest walking a mile in my shoes before making comments...
Can adding a second oil cooler solve the issues at 7psi? Most likely. At 14psi, who knows, but I doubt it. You also need to ponder what adding all the extra coolers are going to do to airflow. I know for a fact that CBender had C&R make a custom radiator and oil cooler to the tune of $1100. It was a pretty piece and had a huge oil cooler section, but he still had cooling issues. Looking at history I decided to punt. I would rather run the car than develop it at this point. If I spend time developing, it will be something with more cylinders. The supercharger is a proven solution for the track.
Will someone get it to work eventually, almost certainly. If I had to try it again, I would add a big oil cooler and a water to oil laminova cooler. I would add a vented hood and a J's racing nose. I would then ceramic coat everything. I would really search for somewhere else to place the oil cooler than in between the radiator and intercooler. I can't think of any car that comes from the factory with them stacked like that. How much boost will this allow you to run? That's for someone else to figure out.
Bill
This is the last I'm going to post on this. I really wasn't looking for an argument. The oil cooler I have (the same one I used on the Supercharger) is larger than that on the EVO, and a lot of other turbo cars. Not sure on the 911 turbo ( I assume were talking about the 996 and newer) as the 993 and older were entirely cooled by the oil coolers as they were air cooled motors.
The oil cooler I have is rated for somewhere around 35-40K BTU/Hr. The largest Setrab cooler they make is roughly double that. Blocking that much more of the radiator, will have some detrimental effects, but how much is hard to tell.
The fluidyne oil cooler posted above I doubt will get much airflow through it if it is sandwiched between the intercooler and radiator. It's just too thick. The S2000 does not have a lot of other places to put a good sized oil cooler. If someone wants to try it they are going to need to figure out a place to put one.
I've poked a bit of fun at JR, as he does everything but call me an idiot. Considering he has never tried hardcore tracking a Turbo S2000 himself the best I can tell, I find this a bit comical. He sold his turbo s2000 and currently runs an NSX. Granted he has some NSX experience, but they are not the same car. It is very easy to arm chair quarterback a solution from the couch. His advice, while I think is valid for increasing cooling, has not been tested, and might or might not work. If it was that easy a lot of people would be doing it. As far as I can tell there are very few, if any, running reliably. I took a chance, weighted the results, and decided that there was more risk than I was willing to try. Could I have done more, sure. Would it have cost more, absolutely. I have never said it was impossible, just not easy. I would suggest walking a mile in my shoes before making comments...
Can adding a second oil cooler solve the issues at 7psi? Most likely. At 14psi, who knows, but I doubt it. You also need to ponder what adding all the extra coolers are going to do to airflow. I know for a fact that CBender had C&R make a custom radiator and oil cooler to the tune of $1100. It was a pretty piece and had a huge oil cooler section, but he still had cooling issues. Looking at history I decided to punt. I would rather run the car than develop it at this point. If I spend time developing, it will be something with more cylinders. The supercharger is a proven solution for the track.
Will someone get it to work eventually, almost certainly. If I had to try it again, I would add a big oil cooler and a water to oil laminova cooler. I would add a vented hood and a J's racing nose. I would then ceramic coat everything. I would really search for somewhere else to place the oil cooler than in between the radiator and intercooler. I can't think of any car that comes from the factory with them stacked like that. How much boost will this allow you to run? That's for someone else to figure out.
Bill
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 8,754
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From: Anaheim, Orange County
Bill, I have been following this read, and this will be my only post.
For those that don't know Bill, he's an engineer who road races. He's also a racer who has engineered and re-engineered more than his fair share of boosted applications over the years on different platforms. Most people in his shoes would have given up or racing with boost, but I am glad he is still wanting to kick Viper butt in ITE and battle it out with Krazik et al.
There will be a road race v-mount turbo S2000 coming to play in ITE. That is all I can say at this time.
-Asura
For those that don't know Bill, he's an engineer who road races. He's also a racer who has engineered and re-engineered more than his fair share of boosted applications over the years on different platforms. Most people in his shoes would have given up or racing with boost, but I am glad he is still wanting to kick Viper butt in ITE and battle it out with Krazik et al.
There will be a road race v-mount turbo S2000 coming to play in ITE. That is all I can say at this time.
-Asura
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,170
Likes: 0
From: SLC, UT
Originally Posted by Asura,Jul 7 2008, 11:17 AM
Bill, I have been following this read, and this will be my only post.
For those that don't know Bill, he's an engineer who road races. He's also a racer who has engineered and re-engineered more than his fair share of boosted applications over the years on different platforms. Most people in his shoes would have given up or racing with boost, but I am glad he is still wanting to kick Viper butt in ITE and battle it out with Krazik et al.
There will be a road race v-mount turbo S2000 coming to play in ITE. That is all I can say at this time.
-Asura
For those that don't know Bill, he's an engineer who road races. He's also a racer who has engineered and re-engineered more than his fair share of boosted applications over the years on different platforms. Most people in his shoes would have given up or racing with boost, but I am glad he is still wanting to kick Viper butt in ITE and battle it out with Krazik et al.
There will be a road race v-mount turbo S2000 coming to play in ITE. That is all I can say at this time.
-Asura
Bill, good luck with the SC setup. There's many a video of SC'd S2000's going W2W with success. I can't wait to see you contribute to those. I've long been an advocate of the varying forms of FI having their application. I sincerely hope to be proven wrong but your thread confirms what I've been saying for a long time...and arguing with JR about this for almost as long (respectfully of course).
This all being said, JR is no slouch from a fabrication perspective and he's an M.E. major at BYU. His NSX is history and I have personally witnessed and partaken in some of the various stages of fabrication that his most recent project has undergone. JR has built a replica Lotus 7 with a turbo SR20 (I think) motor in it from the chassis up (~300hp and 1000lbs). He's stubborn and possibly guilty as being abrasive, but I do respect his opinion. A turbo S2000 race car can be done but we can all agree that it's going to take a fair amount of engineering, fabrication, and dollars to come up with a reliable solution to this dilemma.
Let's all play nice, guys.
Jorge
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,170
Likes: 0
From: SLC, UT
Originally Posted by timg,Jul 7 2008, 08:17 PM
One thing I have to wonder is if a tubular manifold with lower exhaust pressure at the head and less reversion could have lowered the oil temperature.
Tim
Tim