chainsaw1968

Hi All,

Just finished installing a vortech V2 with std pulley on my AP1. Car is running better than expected but i have some questions regarding the vortech timing controller.

I'm in Australia & picked up the timing controller through the FI FS forum. I'm running 98 Octane fuel so I decided to pull the map from the timing controller to see if i could use a bit more timing.

Now that i have the map i'm a bit confused about it & have the following questions for the FI gurus out there

1. At 13.5 PSI & 500 RPM its pulling 25.5 degrees timing, this would be impossible to achieve so it has to be wrong? or is there a reason for it?
2. Map dosnt pull timing until 8.5 PSI but with the stock pulley i will only get 7 PSI. Did i waste my time fitting the timing controller?
3. The map stops at 8000 rpm, what happens after that?
4. There is no timing retard between 5000 & 5500 rpm why?.....(something to do with vtec engagement?)
5. There is a % figure in the top left of the map that changes depending on the cell value entered, anyone know what this % means.
6. Finally there are 2 maps. Map A is all blank & map B has the timing retard....should map A be blank?

I've included a link to my map incase someone wants to look at it in R4

Thanks

Map download

Moddiction

I removed the timing box when I had the basic vortech kit on my car. The comptech kit didn't even supply a timing box so I figured I would be safe. Ran much better without it. I was still running really lean so I needed to get injectors and AEM ems and a tune before my kit would run really well.

chainsaw1968

My AFR's are fine so I dont want to go stand alone ecu (yet), also my afc will allow me to fuel up a little if i have to.

Has anyone run a 4.5 or 4 inch pully with the vortech timing contoller?

Or does anyone have a Map from their controller i can look at?

Slows2k

I've got the original timing maps from my old kit, they don't pull much. 3 degrees IIRC total in all cells above 6k rpm. PM me your email and ill send them to you and you can compare.

s2000Junky

Yeah if your running the base pressure 5-7psi. You don't need to pull timing, especially if your running higher oct fuel on top of that. As mentioned, the older Comptech kits doesn't even supply the option.

***The vafc wont add fuel to this car by the way, just remove it. If you need more fuel you will have to recalibrate your Rising rate fpr to stick with your current system, but your limited by the stock injectors to about 300whp and 95psi at peak rpm/duty.

chainsaw1968

Hi, can you elaborate on why the vafc wont add fuel? My understanding is it has an air correction of plus or minus 50%. I was hoping to fine tune should the need arise. Apexi Neo Manual

PS whats the best way to know (apart from leaning out) if i'm maxing out the duty cycle of my injectors?

s2000Junky

The unit vafc1/2 & Neo all have the ability yes, but the MAP on our car wont take to positive corrections compared to some other car configurations. I think because we don't have a MAF sensor, but i'm not a scientist when it comes to understanding how all this works, I just know from my own experience running a VAFC2 NA and SC for several years what it can/cant do. Much of the discussion and sorting with these units was done on this website about 10 years ago, so there are threads floating around in search land that could give you a more in depth explanation of why positive fuel corrections don't work, better then I can explain. I just know a few years ago when I played trial and error with adding fuel for myself that the car would hiccup and misfire when it reached that + correction in the rpm selected.

So with that, the best strategy when running one of these vafc is to set your mechanical fuel enrichment to slightly richer then needed at its leanest point(which is where the lowered vtec correction is made, up to stock 5900rpm) And remove fuel at each correction point needed to get a smooth fuel tune. You can do this, but I would really recommend a comptech RRFPR since it has an external pressure adjustment, unlike the Vortech unit which takes internal calibration with pucks to pre load the spring/diaphragm. Its really not a user friendly unit to try and dial in a tune with, and considering this road you want to go down, your going to want the comptech unit. You can find them used for like $150, just make sure you get the banjo fuel fitting to fuel rail and hose etc that goe with unit so its 100% bolt in.

The best way to check fuel pressure is to run a tap off the banjo fitting at the fuel rail and remote a line through hood with temporary gauge to the cockpit, verifying the pressure at redline and then remove it. Ive done this, but honestly I started getting familiar enough with the Comptech fpr adjustment to not need it, and just go by what I was hearing at idle with over taxing injectors and seeing on my wideband if I was flat lining before redline. If you run a permanent fuel rail gauge you can at least set a base idle pressure and can get pretty close to knowing where it will rise at redline due to the rising rate ratio. I found with an ap1 comptech fpr that it would rise roughly 30psi from 0 to 6 boost. So if you set idle at 60 psi, you know you will hit 90psi at redline. The ap2 Comptech fpr has a steeper fuel ramp up due ot the added fuel needed at lower rpm, but I found this fpr to be ideal. Hope this helps. Let me know if you have any questions.

chainsaw1968

Thanks for the advice - I'll be on the hunt for Comp FRP

s2000Junky

Sure no problem, I foresaw some added headaches your way. I’ve been down this road so I do what I can to elevate that for people when I can.

chainsaw1968

I contacted Split Second & got some very good answers to my questions. Just thought i would share. Thanks to Mark Amarandos at Split Second for great support


If you see a random 25.5 it is due to a data error during read/write. Change the value to one that is consistent with the surrounding cells and write the file back to the box. Unless your box is doing additional injector control, the valid cell values are between zero and 20.0.

Make sure your System Settings are set to Vacuum/Pressure. System settings should be set before you do a read from ECU. When you change the pressure range, it changes the column labels on the map tables.

The system continues to operate using the cell values in the 8000 RPM row.

Could be. I am not sure about that.


That is used in the case of additional injector control. That indicates additional injector duty cycle.


It sounds like you might have a box that is for an S2000 that is used with a rising rate regulator. If that is the case, map A is not used. Map B is for timing retard.