sleepycivichb

So as a previous S2K owner, then EVO IX owner, now considering another FD3S to K24 swap and want some of the S2K guys that track their cars to give some real world weight:whp comparison to see if the car is a worthwhile budget type track/daily build. Thanks in advance!

warmmilk

sleepycivichb

DavidNJ

1) A budget car, track or DD, doesn't start with a swap. Even if there is a full kit available, it is a bit of an engineering project where fabricated pieces are reaching their limits in your car for the first time. Often at the worst possible moments. For example, breaking a wheel in the downhill at Lime Rock or an oil line cresting the hill at the entrance to the Cork Screw at Laguna Seca.

2) Wt/hp doesn't define a track day car or a DD. Real race cars are often HP limited. The two most popular SCCA classes are Spec Miata (2200#, 135hp) and Spec Racer Ford (1600#, also 135hp). DTM is limited 500hp. Indy basically has a spec engine. Today's technology makes mega hp relatively easy to achieve. It isn't easy to use. In drag racing, they would require safety equipment that compromises street functionality. As a DD, how much hp can you use? Is a car more fun when 3 seconds of wide open throttle passes the speed limit and the noise alerts all police within 1/2 mile, or when you can flog it without receiving attention. In the muscle car heyday of the 1960s, 14sec@100hp was the benchmark of a really fast car and most 'sports cars' where 16+sec@80 something or slower. Sometimes much slower. Then can the 1970s emissions rules and the OPEC gas crisis inspired fuel economy rules and the cars got slower. Corvettes where mid-16s@80 something.

3) Road course driving is supposed to be amount handling. Carrying speed through corners. Powering out early and hard. Handling and aero far more important than a few mph down a long straight. At a track day/HPDE event, you aren't braking hard and late to go fender-to-fender to fight for position. Even in NASA, the classes are in a wt/hp basis. More power just puts you in a faster class with fewer competitors.

4) The FD3S started life with a 250lb engine; all the Hondas from a B-series, to a K-series 400lb. A J-series is around 550lb. Why not just tie someone to your hood?

If you want to build an interesting swap, build one...but it is unlikely to be either a reliable DD or a reliable well-balanced track day car. It can be unique and you can have some fun dyno racing it.

If you want to get track day seat time, get something that can run and run and run and run with minimal maintenance and where the reliability issues are worked out. There is another active thread on that. I made recommendations for a dedicated track day car (SRF) and track day/DD (Mustang PP2, recommend 2019 model to delivered early July).

If you want to do a swap, I recommend putting a 2JZ-GTE VVTi or LT4 into just about anything. The LT4 is $15k + electronics, 650hp tractable hp from the factory and very compact. The JDM 2JZ-GTE VVTi is imported from Japan by several sources and under $3k. Change the turbo and maybe the intake, say $15k-$20k, and you can have 1000+hp. S2k conversions are common, as are FT86/BRZ. And many others. It will be limited to the LT4 levels on pump gas, but on E85 or with water/methanol injection 1500+hp is fairly straightforward to get. That would be totally useless at track day.

sleepycivichb

DavidNJ

I did get the weights wrong. 250 was right for a 13B, but this is a 13BREW. So...yes about the same weight.

Still...why? Does the F3DS have any advantage over an S2000?

Its been done before, but unclear if the Australian conversion is the only one.


http://youtu.be/303OresIVJw

sleepycivichb

robrob

Do it.

DavidNJ

You are making modifications to a 16-to-26-year-old sports car where the number of conversions can be counted on one hand. It may be a fun street rod. It could do an occasional track day and may run without incident on some of them. You can drive it on the street, maybe even with A/C and not overheating...maybe.

However, it won't be as reliable and practical a track car or a street car as the options in the other thread. The extensive time and money going into the conversion is time not spent on the track. There are virtually no decent tires available in 17" diameter anymore wider than 255 other than Hoosier race tires (this is also a Supra issue). If you want tires for rims that width and in the right diameter you need to go 18", and then the A052 is really the only option with a rear that wide (315/30-18, which is 1/2"taller). In 19" and 20" sizes there are lots of tires, but those are an inch or more taller.

Net: if you like conversion projects and the old Mazda RX-7 interests you, go for it. If your goal is fun time behind the wheel rather than under the car, or you like to get to work on time regardless of the weather, there are (much) better options.

P.S.
If you would like 800hp and a DCT trans, you could do a Supra or 2JZ VVTi conversion with the Garage Whifbiz kit to adapt an E90 M3 DCT.

sleepycivichb