Plus Gendron has some new mounts that relocate the bar so it doesn't rub against the steering rack boot! Full bearing mounts!

 

Who said I was trying to "reinvent the wheel"?

I simply thought that the 1.25 solid was the "standard" Gendron bar, and that's what most people used, and that the 1.375 hollow was only for the more advanced people who really needed it. Thus, I thought it would just be overkill for my uses.

So, are you saying that the 1.25 solid will still leave me with substantial oversteer?

I am listening, but have yet to see anyone give me any definitive answers... something to the extent of: "The gendron 1.25 solid will still give you a litter oversteer, but not be too bad, the saner bar will definitely leave you with even more oversteer, but the 1.375 will be perfectly neutral" or whatever the case may be. I'm not sure if that's how they each would work, but that was just an example...

Really? That's great. Thanks for the info! Gaining such new info was one of my main hopes in creating this thread.

 

What?? Reinvent the wheel?? Seriously? You guys make tuning sound like its some definite science with an absolute systematic approach.

Why ruin the end thats working? Yes, it'll probably reduce your terminal roll angle (helping keep the rear inside down in tight turns and reducing camber loss) but it'll also increase lateral load transfer up front, decreasing front end potential/grip. Like nearly all things in tuning, it's a compromise. The one who knows whats truly important wins.

 

As mavm86 stated, I went to the bigger bar to reduce wheel lift. I was losing drive out of the corners from the wheel lift.

 

My guess, and it is really a guess because I have not autocrossed on street tires, is that the 1.25" solid will work with your current tires. If you move to a 245 square setup with R-compounds, it will work most of the time, but it will suck when it doesn't. I think the reason most people use a 1.25" solid Gendron is because that was the best he had for a long time. He made a limited run of the 1.375" hollow, so not many people had those.

My recommendation? If you have found "a pretty good deal" on the Gendron, buy it and try it. They hold their value pretty well. When I found a used 1.375" bar, I sold my 1.25" and the upgrade cost me less than $100.

 

It is impossible to say, "X bar will give you understeer/oversteer" since there is so much more that goes into it than just the bar. Alignment also has a big impact on if the car will understeer, oversteer, or be neutral. You need to tune everything together.

So, you could have a car with the 1.25" bar that understeers, or it could oversteer, depending on the other factors.

 

If you get a Gendron with the 'old' brackets, add a 1/2" spacer between the frame rail and the bracket. That'll space the bar down from the steering rack boot. Of course you need 1/2" longer bolts.

Everything is a compromise in car tuning. If you get a stiffer bar it'll reduce the chances of inside wheelspin more than a softer bar. It'll also add more understeer, which can be tuned out with alignment (less rear camber and/or toe-in). It's not black and white; it's all shades of grey. Some people like dark grey while others like a medium grey. Only freaks like light grey though!

I had a custom 1-5/16" Gendron that I ran at full stiff all the time. I then upgraded to a 1.44" prototype Ankeny bar - also full stiff. Then I went to a production 1.5" Ankeny - you guessed it: full stiff.

 

I'll echo what Marc and alot of others have said. The 1.375" hollow is the proper "Gendron" bar for the AP1, though guys have run stiffer succesfully. I need to run full stiff on the bar to get a proper balance running 245x4 A6's for autoX purposes. I still had inside wheel lift that was only nearly eliminated by my custom valved Konis. I believe the sway bar mounts are now the weak link as they use a polyurethane "Energy Suspension" bushing. Bill is now offering solid mounts that should allow the 1.375" hollow to be used to it's maximum effectiveness when on full stiff.

If you're not running Rcompound "slicks" then you will not the stiffest setting. I believe that the 1.375" with stock springs and 6 adjustment settings should give you all of the range you would need when running a stickier track tire like starspec, RE11 or stickier. I've ran 2 gendron bars and reliability has been good. Keep the mounts greased. Be sure to properly install the bar with zero preload. If not, the bushing mounts will tend to mushroom out more than usual. Bill also uses stainless steel, high quality endlinks now which I have had zero issues with. The 1.375" hollow is also significantly lighter than the solids. Buy the 1.375", start on full soft than go stiffer to suit to taste. Enjoy.

 

[QUOTE=Forcednduckshn,May 26 2010, 07:55 AM]If you're not running Rcompound "slicks" then you will not the stiffest setting.

 

So where is everyone getting the 1.375 hollow if they don't make them anymore?