Spec miata
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 443
Likes: 12
From: Cape Cod
I have raced a spec Miata in a 24 hour race and a 12 hour race (and planning for another 12-hour in April). They are easy to drive and relatively hard to get into trouble with. If the back end starts coming around, give it more throttle. Handling is predictable. In the 24 hour race the car needed a 1/2 quart of oil, fuel, and tires. In the 12 hour; fuel and tires. Yes, they have mechanical failures as any car does. I don't see too many people wrenching on them at SCCA races, unless fixing crash damage. Close racing leads to contact and body damage, hence the nickname Smash Miata.
My friend with the Miata raced an MG Midget before building the Miata. He often won races with the MG, but that is not so much the case with the Miata, though his team did have a class win in a 24 hour race. Not too many sprint race wins. He is not spending the big bucks on high priced engines, or new tires for each race. Also spends a fraction of the time wrenching on the Miata compared to the MG.
All the money that can be spent on a "spec" engine, to me, makes it not such a spec class. I think engines should be built by factory, dyno tested and sealed for it to be a real spec class. I know there are lots of challenges to doing that, thus it will not happen.
I like road racing in SCCA EP. I can tinker with the car to improve it. This helps to feed the engineer in me. Can't really do that with an SM. Are there things that I think the S2000 could be much better at ? - yes. No car is perfect, but I will be sticking with the S.
My friend with the Miata raced an MG Midget before building the Miata. He often won races with the MG, but that is not so much the case with the Miata, though his team did have a class win in a 24 hour race. Not too many sprint race wins. He is not spending the big bucks on high priced engines, or new tires for each race. Also spends a fraction of the time wrenching on the Miata compared to the MG.
All the money that can be spent on a "spec" engine, to me, makes it not such a spec class. I think engines should be built by factory, dyno tested and sealed for it to be a real spec class. I know there are lots of challenges to doing that, thus it will not happen.
I like road racing in SCCA EP. I can tinker with the car to improve it. This helps to feed the engineer in me. Can't really do that with an SM. Are there things that I think the S2000 could be much better at ? - yes. No car is perfect, but I will be sticking with the S.
Former Moderator
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,729
Likes: 8
Originally Posted by josserman' timestamp='1421202264' post='23467238
So Ive been looking more and more at moving to w2w along with TT. In going down the route I've been watching a ton of miata race videos and honestly can't imagine why anyone would want to race anything else.
So far the reasons I've heard are:
Crappy cars lots of failures
Too much money on body parts
Too dangerous
Too expensive, $50k+ to be competitive
Too much about racecraft and not about driving/cars
Wanted to get everyone else's thoughts here. If you're here chances are you choose not to run Miatas just want to get the logic behind it, again looking at SCCA run off and other videos, I don't think ive ever seen something as exciting!
So far the reasons I've heard are:
Crappy cars lots of failures
Too much money on body parts
Too dangerous
Too expensive, $50k+ to be competitive
Too much about racecraft and not about driving/cars
Wanted to get everyone else's thoughts here. If you're here chances are you choose not to run Miatas just want to get the logic behind it, again looking at SCCA run off and other videos, I don't think ive ever seen something as exciting!
Crappy cars lots of failures
-No. Like any track-prepared car, failures are mostly dependant on how well you nut and bolt the car. The only things that really fail that I've seen are the control arms when you get hit because they're stamped. Everything else is pretty damn stout.
Too much money on body parts
-No. Buy a parts for 500 bucks. That's what we do.
Too dangerous
-No. Ever try open wheel racing? Ever race an S2000 with a supercharger (the question is rhetorical, obviously)? SM is one of the safest form of racing mainly because of the low power, high cornering speed nature of the cars. Yes, you're often in a crowded field of cars, but like any form of wheel-to-wheel racing there is an inherent risk of contact that can be minimized with seat time and situational awareness. Bump-drafting is a big thing in this class because of the low power of the cars, so there's that as well.
Too expensive, $50k+ to be competitive
-No. Pay someone to put a cage in, buy a good engine, paint and bodywork, etc., and do all the assembly yourself and you're looking at spending around 28-30k for a very competitive race car. Engine builders are a big part of this. Look to spend around 5-8k on a competitive engine from Autotechnik/Rossini/Drago etc. The expensive part, like every other form of racing, is the tires and consumables, not to mention the logistics. I won't go into that, because I'm sure you're familiar with it all.
Too much about racecraft and not about driving/cars
-No. Plain and simple, if you want to go up against the best SCCA drivers, especially on the east coast, there is no better or more competitive class than SM. If you can drive an SM to a podium finish, you are a very fast, talented driver.
People who say they can't fit in it haven't met guys like Jim Drago (350 pound mountain of a man), who races and wins. Plain and simple, if you want to go up against the best field of drivers at the club racing level, race spec Miata. There are guys that spend upwards of 60k on a car and barely crack the top 5, and there are guys that spend under 30k on a car and are regularly on podium. Depends on who builds the car, and how it is set up, but mainly on the driver's proficiency.
Experience: I've spent my whole life at race tracks, and have been working with Alex Bolanos (SCCA 2014 Majors Champion, 2014 NASA SM Champion) on his car for the last year and a half, currently building one of my own. Otherwise surrounded by people in this class.
It's easier to win if you're cheating….
Community Organizer
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 5,507
Likes: 231
From: Miami, FL
Originally Posted by Ricky_Flowers_' timestamp='1421375125' post='23469946
[quote name='josserman' timestamp='1421202264' post='23467238']
So Ive been looking more and more at moving to w2w along with TT. In going down the route I've been watching a ton of miata race videos and honestly can't imagine why anyone would want to race anything else.
So far the reasons I've heard are:
Crappy cars lots of failures
Too much money on body parts
Too dangerous
Too expensive, $50k+ to be competitive
Too much about racecraft and not about driving/cars
Wanted to get everyone else's thoughts here. If you're here chances are you choose not to run Miatas just want to get the logic behind it, again looking at SCCA run off and other videos, I don't think ive ever seen something as exciting!
So Ive been looking more and more at moving to w2w along with TT. In going down the route I've been watching a ton of miata race videos and honestly can't imagine why anyone would want to race anything else.
So far the reasons I've heard are:
Crappy cars lots of failures
Too much money on body parts
Too dangerous
Too expensive, $50k+ to be competitive
Too much about racecraft and not about driving/cars
Wanted to get everyone else's thoughts here. If you're here chances are you choose not to run Miatas just want to get the logic behind it, again looking at SCCA run off and other videos, I don't think ive ever seen something as exciting!
Crappy cars lots of failures
-No. Like any track-prepared car, failures are mostly dependant on how well you nut and bolt the car. The only things that really fail that I've seen are the control arms when you get hit because they're stamped. Everything else is pretty damn stout.
Too much money on body parts
-No. Buy a parts for 500 bucks. That's what we do.
Too dangerous
-No. Ever try open wheel racing? Ever race an S2000 with a supercharger (the question is rhetorical, obviously)? SM is one of the safest form of racing mainly because of the low power, high cornering speed nature of the cars. Yes, you're often in a crowded field of cars, but like any form of wheel-to-wheel racing there is an inherent risk of contact that can be minimized with seat time and situational awareness. Bump-drafting is a big thing in this class because of the low power of the cars, so there's that as well.
Too expensive, $50k+ to be competitive
-No. Pay someone to put a cage in, buy a good engine, paint and bodywork, etc., and do all the assembly yourself and you're looking at spending around 28-30k for a very competitive race car. Engine builders are a big part of this. Look to spend around 5-8k on a competitive engine from Autotechnik/Rossini/Drago etc. The expensive part, like every other form of racing, is the tires and consumables, not to mention the logistics. I won't go into that, because I'm sure you're familiar with it all.
Too much about racecraft and not about driving/cars
-No. Plain and simple, if you want to go up against the best SCCA drivers, especially on the east coast, there is no better or more competitive class than SM. If you can drive an SM to a podium finish, you are a very fast, talented driver.
People who say they can't fit in it haven't met guys like Jim Drago (350 pound mountain of a man), who races and wins. Plain and simple, if you want to go up against the best field of drivers at the club racing level, race spec Miata. There are guys that spend upwards of 60k on a car and barely crack the top 5, and there are guys that spend under 30k on a car and are regularly on podium. Depends on who builds the car, and how it is set up, but mainly on the driver's proficiency.
Experience: I've spent my whole life at race tracks, and have been working with Alex Bolanos (SCCA 2014 Majors Champion, 2014 NASA SM Champion) on his car for the last year and a half, currently building one of my own. Otherwise surrounded by people in this class.
It's easier to win if you're cheating….
[/quote]
What you have to understand is that these illegal engines were giving drivers a 1-3 hp advantage do to headwork. The rule-breakers had heads that were built to exploit a loophole, and when the rule changed, they didn't change their engines to comply. As a result, tech has increased at majors events, and officials now know what to look for.
There are other ways to build a competitive engine without breaking rules, of course....
But to directly reply to your (condescending?) statement, the top 10 finishers in the SM Eastern Coference Championship raced with completely legal engines all year. Coincidentally, the person who finished 11th had an illegal engine, and was caught at the runoffs.
Former Moderator
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,729
Likes: 8
But to directly reply to your (condescending?) statement, the top 10 finishers in the SM Eastern Coference Championship raced with completely legal engines all year. Coincidentally, the person who finished 11th had an illegal engine, and was caught at the runoffs.
That distain that you're sensing from me is that the culture of "cheating is okay" is what had been suspected in Spec Miata for some time.
$8000 for a Miata engine is against the intent of what the class was supposed to be (see Mazdaspeed's clarification).
If it doesn't make a difference, then run crate engines.
I think they're going in the right direction by selling turnkey spec MX5s. Cheaper than a competitive spec miata and hopefully more actual spec this time.
Community Organizer
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 5,507
Likes: 231
From: Miami, FL
Originally Posted by Ricky_Flowers_' timestamp='1421387640' post='23470146
But to directly reply to your (condescending?) statement, the top 10 finishers in the SM Eastern Coference Championship raced with completely legal engines all year. Coincidentally, the person who finished 11th had an illegal engine, and was caught at the runoffs.
That distain that you're sensing from me is that the culture of "cheating is okay" is what had been suspected in Spec Miata for some time.
$8000 for a Miata engine is against the intent of what the class was supposed to be (see Mazdaspeed's clarification).
If it doesn't make a difference, then run crate engines.
I think they're going in the right direction by selling turnkey spec MX5s. Cheaper than a competitive spec miata and hopefully more actual spec this time.
As long as the cost of consumables is kept to a minimum then Spec MX-5 will be a success. Time will tell if that class takes off.
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 907
Likes: 0
From: Reno, NV
$8000 for a Miata engine is against the intent of what the class was supposed to be (see Mazdaspeed's clarification).
If it doesn't make a difference, then run crate engines.
I think they're going in the right direction by selling turnkey spec MX5s. Cheaper than a competitive spec miata and hopefully more actual spec this time.
If it doesn't make a difference, then run crate engines.
I think they're going in the right direction by selling turnkey spec MX5s. Cheaper than a competitive spec miata and hopefully more actual spec this time.
It just sends money in different direction
Community Organizer
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 5,507
Likes: 231
From: Miami, FL
Originally Posted by CKit' timestamp='1421388120' post='23470148
$8000 for a Miata engine is against the intent of what the class was supposed to be (see Mazdaspeed's clarification).
If it doesn't make a difference, then run crate engines.
I think they're going in the right direction by selling turnkey spec MX5s. Cheaper than a competitive spec miata and hopefully more actual spec this time.
It just sends money in different direction
