Spec miata
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Joined: Dec 2014
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You can pick up a midpack car for ~10k and have fun in it. I think the biggest reason I didn't get one this year when looking for something to get into w2w again was that I wanted a car that I could build on later. Spec is fun, cheap, and has tons of competition. Running cost can be low comparably to other options. Only thing cheaper would be to go karting.
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Joined: Jun 2009
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Having 3+ years in this industry working for a professional team that corralled 15+ different SM's a season, I wouldn't touch one with a ten foot pole. I've been offered a drive in the past and said no thanks.
The amount of cheating that goes on in SM is disgusting, as is the case with most 'spec' classes. You can want to believe that it isnt true all you want but it is. 50% of top finishing national level racers have something out right illegal, and another 30% probably have "grey" area modifications.
About a Miata's build quality...
Brand new Mazda create heads have so much loose aluminum flashing from poor cheap machining it can cause engine failure.
**Pictures to come**
Castings are so poor and worn out that there is a significant variation from cylinder to cylinder shape. this can be seen here in the uneven machine marks and depths...
Marks on a camshaft from a crate head.
Typical Engine wear from ~30 hours (about the length your motor will produce competitive HP) This is partly due to the horrible cooling design of these motors in the FR configuration. These are originally Ford escort FF engines designed to be transverse mounted. From 949 racing
"The Miata's engine was designed for a front wheel drive car then turned 90* lengthwise in the Miata. To make it fit, Mazda's engineers moved the coolant outlet from the rear of the head where it belongs, to the front of the head. As a result of this backwards flow, only a small portion of the total coolant water flow goes around the 4th cylinder at the rear of the head so it runs hotter that the front of the engine."
Transmission are easily one of the weakest links. The space between Reverse and 5th on the counter shaft is too large and the spacer is not splined. This allows the whopping 95 ft/lbs of torque to twist the shaft stripping 5th gear. This is clearly evident because when tearing everything down the Reverse gear can no longer slide off the counter shaft. This is most common on 99+ models. 3rd gear is also significantly weak and again a calm shift to 3rd under higher loads like up the hill at NHMS will pop 3rd, most common on 90-97 models.
The Machining quality with these transmission is also very poor. You can see with the naked eye how far off these machined main shafts are...
Typical amount of parts used after 4-5 weekends
The diff has a designed fatigue failure point, that will crack with a simple scca accepted 'bump draft'
Chassis...
Amount of rear travel at ride height less than 1/2"....
And when coupled with a spec 325lb cadillac soft spring = creamed bump stops and shocks...
You have to tune the balance of these cars backwards are lowering the rear of the car actually makes the car oversteer MORE because it hits the bumpstop sooner
The new regulation spec tire switch to hoosiers has completely overloaded suspension components to be loaded under force NEVER intended by Mazda. The following pictures are failure under corner load ONLY zero contact was involved to create these failures...
Not pictures but lower ball joints have simply sheared under load 3-4 times to date. Again zero contact before the failure.
Mazda hubs replaced every 20hrs or after contact, These have literally just sheared off at the bearing mid corner underload.
These suspension reasons alone are why I will never get in a miata at speed. Risking my life to a machine that may or may not critically fail at 100+ is not my idea of acceptable.
The amount of cheating that goes on in SM is disgusting, as is the case with most 'spec' classes. You can want to believe that it isnt true all you want but it is. 50% of top finishing national level racers have something out right illegal, and another 30% probably have "grey" area modifications.
About a Miata's build quality...
Brand new Mazda create heads have so much loose aluminum flashing from poor cheap machining it can cause engine failure.
**Pictures to come**
Castings are so poor and worn out that there is a significant variation from cylinder to cylinder shape. this can be seen here in the uneven machine marks and depths...
Marks on a camshaft from a crate head.
Typical Engine wear from ~30 hours (about the length your motor will produce competitive HP) This is partly due to the horrible cooling design of these motors in the FR configuration. These are originally Ford escort FF engines designed to be transverse mounted. From 949 racing
"The Miata's engine was designed for a front wheel drive car then turned 90* lengthwise in the Miata. To make it fit, Mazda's engineers moved the coolant outlet from the rear of the head where it belongs, to the front of the head. As a result of this backwards flow, only a small portion of the total coolant water flow goes around the 4th cylinder at the rear of the head so it runs hotter that the front of the engine."
Transmission are easily one of the weakest links. The space between Reverse and 5th on the counter shaft is too large and the spacer is not splined. This allows the whopping 95 ft/lbs of torque to twist the shaft stripping 5th gear. This is clearly evident because when tearing everything down the Reverse gear can no longer slide off the counter shaft. This is most common on 99+ models. 3rd gear is also significantly weak and again a calm shift to 3rd under higher loads like up the hill at NHMS will pop 3rd, most common on 90-97 models.
The Machining quality with these transmission is also very poor. You can see with the naked eye how far off these machined main shafts are...
Typical amount of parts used after 4-5 weekends
The diff has a designed fatigue failure point, that will crack with a simple scca accepted 'bump draft'
Chassis...
Amount of rear travel at ride height less than 1/2"....
And when coupled with a spec 325lb cadillac soft spring = creamed bump stops and shocks...
You have to tune the balance of these cars backwards are lowering the rear of the car actually makes the car oversteer MORE because it hits the bumpstop sooner
The new regulation spec tire switch to hoosiers has completely overloaded suspension components to be loaded under force NEVER intended by Mazda. The following pictures are failure under corner load ONLY zero contact was involved to create these failures...
Not pictures but lower ball joints have simply sheared under load 3-4 times to date. Again zero contact before the failure.
Mazda hubs replaced every 20hrs or after contact, These have literally just sheared off at the bearing mid corner underload.
These suspension reasons alone are why I will never get in a miata at speed. Risking my life to a machine that may or may not critically fail at 100+ is not my idea of acceptable.
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 591
Likes: 11
For the record I've driven and enjoyed the MX-5 Cup cars(SBRS). They are a completely different animal to the NA/NB cars. My only gripe being that they should have the 6speed, and not the 5 speeds. The 5 speed in the MX5 is the same vintage and design as the 1990 miata which is a derivative of the 80's FC RX7. To say they are dated is an understatment. The MX5 we ran in the Conti series (197whp) needed a transmission after everyday (2/3 transmissions a weekend, not a joke). We had a super hard time finishing a race period. When my boss finally agreed to run the 6spd we ran and finished at homestead flawlessly.
A spec series should be spec. Buy it from one party (mazda, mazdaspeed, a 3rd party like speedsource whatever, but it should be sealed can't touch anything. Otherwise you spend 100k+ a year to go spec miata racing like many of out customers did.
A spec series should be spec. Buy it from one party (mazda, mazdaspeed, a 3rd party like speedsource whatever, but it should be sealed can't touch anything. Otherwise you spend 100k+ a year to go spec miata racing like many of out customers did.
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 5,087
Likes: 837
Yup! Top notch post 
Completely killed any desire I had to step into a Miata. THANK YOU!!!
E30s are pretty fun, but they have their own slew of problems too. Mine was quite enjoyable, but left me stranded twice (my fault, I guess - it was a 27 year old car. I should have changed the fuel lines and the clutch slave cylinder along with all the other stuff I did restoring it).
I wonder how rampant cheating is in SE30. I always knew SM was a big giant "if you're not cheating, you're not winning." And even more than that, "if you're not cheating, you're not competitive."
I remember somewhere in the country is a spec Ariel Atom series... that looks like fun. SRF also looks pretty fun too.
Completely killed any desire I had to step into a Miata. THANK YOU!!!
E30s are pretty fun, but they have their own slew of problems too. Mine was quite enjoyable, but left me stranded twice (my fault, I guess - it was a 27 year old car. I should have changed the fuel lines and the clutch slave cylinder along with all the other stuff I did restoring it).
I wonder how rampant cheating is in SE30. I always knew SM was a big giant "if you're not cheating, you're not winning." And even more than that, "if you're not cheating, you're not competitive."
I remember somewhere in the country is a spec Ariel Atom series... that looks like fun. SRF also looks pretty fun too.
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,342
Likes: 0
Having 3+ years in this industry working for a professional team that corralled 15+ different SM's a season, I wouldn't touch one with a ten foot pole. I've been offered a drive in the past and said no thanks.
The amount of cheating that goes on in SM is disgusting, as is the case with most 'spec' classes. You can want to believe that it isnt true all you want but it is. 50% of top finishing national level racers have something out right illegal, and another 30% probably have "grey" area modifications.
About a Miata's build quality... <Fantastic Post about SM Reliability>
The amount of cheating that goes on in SM is disgusting, as is the case with most 'spec' classes. You can want to believe that it isnt true all you want but it is. 50% of top finishing national level racers have something out right illegal, and another 30% probably have "grey" area modifications.
About a Miata's build quality... <Fantastic Post about SM Reliability>
I have raced a spec Miata in a 24 hour race and a 12 hour race (and planning for another 12-hour in April). They are easy to drive and relatively hard to get into trouble with. If the back end starts coming around, give it more throttle. Handling is predictable. In the 24 hour race the car needed a 1/2 quart of oil, fuel, and tires. In the 12 hour; fuel and tires. Yes, they have mechanical failures as any car does. I don't see too many people wrenching on them at SCCA races, unless fixing crash damage. Close racing leads to contact and body damage, hence the nickname Smash Miata.
My friend with the Miata raced an MG Midget before building the Miata. He often won races with the MG, but that is not so much the case with the Miata, though his team did have a class win in a 24 hour race. Not too many sprint race wins. He is not spending the big bucks on high priced engines, or new tires for each race. Also spends a fraction of the time wrenching on the Miata compared to the MG.
All the money that can be spent on a "spec" engine, to me, makes it not such a spec class. I think engines should be built by factory, dyno tested and sealed for it to be a real spec class. I know there are lots of challenges to doing that, thus it will not happen.
I like road racing in SCCA EP. I can tinker with the car to improve it. This helps to feed the engineer in me. Can't really do that with an SM. Are there things that I think the S2000 could be much better at ? - yes. No car is perfect, but I will be sticking with the S.
My friend with the Miata raced an MG Midget before building the Miata. He often won races with the MG, but that is not so much the case with the Miata, though his team did have a class win in a 24 hour race. Not too many sprint race wins. He is not spending the big bucks on high priced engines, or new tires for each race. Also spends a fraction of the time wrenching on the Miata compared to the MG.
All the money that can be spent on a "spec" engine, to me, makes it not such a spec class. I think engines should be built by factory, dyno tested and sealed for it to be a real spec class. I know there are lots of challenges to doing that, thus it will not happen.
I like road racing in SCCA EP. I can tinker with the car to improve it. This helps to feed the engineer in me. Can't really do that with an SM. Are there things that I think the S2000 could be much better at ? - yes. No car is perfect, but I will be sticking with the S.
Just bringing to light that one of the people you referenced (Drago) was one of the ones with a noncompliant engine.
That distain that you're sensing from me is that the culture of "cheating is okay" is what had been suspected in Spec Miata for some time.
$8000 for a Miata engine is against the intent of what the class was supposed to be (see Mazdaspeed's clarification).
If it doesn't make a difference, then run crate engines.
I think they're going in the right direction by selling turnkey spec MX5s. Cheaper than a competitive spec miata and hopefully more actual spec this time.
That distain that you're sensing from me is that the culture of "cheating is okay" is what had been suspected in Spec Miata for some time.
$8000 for a Miata engine is against the intent of what the class was supposed to be (see Mazdaspeed's clarification).
If it doesn't make a difference, then run crate engines.
I think they're going in the right direction by selling turnkey spec MX5s. Cheaper than a competitive spec miata and hopefully more actual spec this time.
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 524
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From: Houston, TX
I have done a couple of races in the spec miatas and I actually have one tomorrow!
And I didn't like to see those pictures
What's great is that replacement parts are cheap (like 2k for a WHOLE car?) and that races are FUN. I mean, 40-cars-on-the-track-at-the-same-time-fun. Going into T1 if you are in the mid pack is CRAZY!
I am running a friend's car with a 1.6 crate engine. I know the top 10s are "investing more money than me" in it so I am happy to finish in the top 10. Overall just the racing, the bumper to bumper feel, driving like you are fighting for the first place even if you are maybe 20th, these are reasons why to get into the SM series.
It's a money pit, sure, but which car racing serie isn't?
And I didn't like to see those pictures
What's great is that replacement parts are cheap (like 2k for a WHOLE car?) and that races are FUN. I mean, 40-cars-on-the-track-at-the-same-time-fun. Going into T1 if you are in the mid pack is CRAZY!
I am running a friend's car with a 1.6 crate engine. I know the top 10s are "investing more money than me" in it so I am happy to finish in the top 10. Overall just the racing, the bumper to bumper feel, driving like you are fighting for the first place even if you are maybe 20th, these are reasons why to get into the SM series.
It's a money pit, sure, but which car racing serie isn't?