There have been allot of changes lately with Slicks being outlawed in Prod, Prod absorbing Mod into a new Mod. And now there is talk of 125pt for Hoosiers. It's always hard for a sanctioning body to keep everyone happy, but there should be some rules stability. I think everyone who cares should use this thread to voice their opinion on how the classing/points values should be laid out.

It will then be Speedventures job to take all that information and try to come up with a rule-set that will last, and one that will be committed to by everyone. So take a moment, think about what you would like to see in the rules - keeping in mind what you want to take from your experience (reference Jason R's post in the Thill update thread.) Post something outlining your opinion.

After a few days of ideas/debate, then the Speedventures gang should digest the data and come up with a few 'choices' for classing structures and start a poll. Open the poll for voting and there you have the final rules set. Does this sound agreeable to everyone? Then you stick to those rules until the end of the season, and from there make adjustments for the following year.

I'm going to post my classing ideas a little bit later because I have to get back to work... but let's get started. Who's going first? Jason? Doug? Aaaron?

 

bookmark.

I'll add my 2 bits l8r. I really like the idea of a spec series. I also still think we need a novice class.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by krazik
[B]bookmark.

I'll add my 2 bits l8r.

 

Ok... here's my 2c:

First off, I agree with Rylan... there should be a novice class. The mods should be limited, and possibly street tire only. If you want to run race tires and do a bunch of mods chances are you aren't a novice in the first place. This will give people a place to start out without the intimidation of compeitition. So the first class of my suggestion is Novice:
Novice - Brake mods OK, street tires, limited other mods ok (assign points if you think it's important enough) any exhaust, intake, etc.
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Next class would be the spec class - pick the most popular mods and set it up so the 'drivers' competitors will flock to this class. Not the spenders, but rather those who want to see how they stack up against the other drivers. There still will be some setup involved, as spring-rate choice, damper settings, aligment settings and so-on will be very important. This is the class that JZR proposed in the other thread. Call this one Mod class since that name is already there.
Mod - Brake mods no points (stock components only), coilovers, wing, hardtop, front swaybar, spec tire, any wheel. Maybe allow intake/header as well... that would be my preference.

The reason I include any wheel is that wheel size really won't affect lap times that much... I ran a 44.6 at Laguna on 225 Kumhos on the stock wheels, yet ran a 44.5 with Hoosiers on MF10's. By allowing the wheels you give people more choice on what they want to run for street wheels vs. race wheels. Plus, it makes for better looking race cars! I say intake and header because these are very popular mods that don't really affect lap times as much as other factors. By allowing these things you keep the class open to more people. Also, the wing provision of the rules should disallow (sorry Jason) active or passively driver adjustability and keep within a certain dimension. If you want to cut something off my list, make it the hardtop... although I don't think the hardtop makes that much difference over a closed soft top. The reason I like this better than the points system employed currently is that the testing involved in trying all the different combinations of parts to find that 'cheater' loophole combination will cost far more than setting a spec and sticking with it... and trying to include the most popular mods in that spec.
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Finally there should be an unlimited, let it all hang out class... My only thing is that slicks should be outlawed from even the unlimited class. They are super-expensive and in my mind a shortcut to speed. It would be much cooler if some of the spec cars could be within a couple seconds of the unlimited cars rather than 5 seconds. I know the goal is ultimate speed, but aren't Hoosiers enough Dave?
Unlimited - Run whatever the heck you brung w/no slicks allowed.
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So um, there you have my opinion... for whatever it's worth. I know you guys will probably think I have too many mods in the spec class, but many of them don't really make a huge difference on lap times. Of course I'm thinking of my own interests because that's what I'd like to run for a set of mods - but that's what we're supposed to do in this thread - post our own feelings. So that's what I did.

I'd still have a hard time choosing from Mod or Unlimited... I'd like to go for top overall time, but by the same token I feel like I've got a little to prove on the driving front as well. It seems allot of people assume that those 44's were because of the King car more than it's driver. So I might be inclined to run the spec class because it's gonna be cheaper and it will be a good way for me to redeem myself. I'll have to wait for the final rules to make my decision, but taking into account my suggestions above I'd pick the spec class.

So there you have it... let's see some responses here. The more input that Speedventures gets the better it will make the final product.

 

A "spec" series is only really spec when the cars are controlled by the racing series......aka Skip Barber and Jim Hall Karting, both of which i've tried, and will be at Laguna Seca 4/5 skippy race. Even in my spec races i drove some fast and some slow cars, especially shifter karts. So called "spec" series where cars are run by the racers...i.e. spec Miata is still not really better, and probably worse than current classing, that is there are some clearly better developed cars...it's huge in spec Miata....from homemade jallopies(re:Bitterman), to fully blueprinted race cars.

A spec series for Time Trialing requires a shared spec vehicle/s.



Furthermore, spec racing is available in other venues, what's great about track days...and actually better than real racing, is to do anything to your car and flog it on the track....without any Gestapo rules spoiling the fun.

Novice class would be good.....then i would be 1st!!!

 

Agreed on use of the word 'spec.' And if you want to do the typical track day run-what-ya-brung just run unlimited class. I'm sure there will be plenty of competition there. Heck I might be there!

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jason Saini
[B]

 

In thinking about this I have gone in circles and ended up pretty close to where we are already today.
I like the concept of a "spec"-like series, leveling the playing field, as I would like to know how slow (or fast in future) I am relative to other drivers, as a driver, so I can set goals. My initial reservations, however, were that most if not all of us track our street cars, and some people like to customize their street car since they spend more time off than on tracks, and the "spec" rules would allow less flexibility in what they can do for the street. And for those like me who already invested in wheels and new tires, 17" in my case, just for the track but that no longer qualify, they are at a loss (expensive r-compound set-up for the street ....mmm, might not be bad afterall ).

Then as I considered the mods that both Jason's proposed, I concluded that these are what most people would do anyway today to max out 200 points, or close, for MOD, with the exception that we ban Hoosiers and larger-or-controllable wings. So if we ban Hoosiers and large-or-controllable wings from MOD (which I don't think would be too controversial since JZR proposed doing both, leaving only Doug using Hoosiers), we already have our "spec" class. This might be the simplest solution.

Edit: For this revised MOD or "spec" class, to simplify things we could simply ban all wings since Jason's would already be banned and no one else has one (as yet ), and avoid having to specify dimentions etc..

 

I agree with Richard that we should ban GT-style wings, adjustable or not. (Stock spoilers/airdams are fine of course.) My rationale is that, as F1 and CART found out 30+ years ago, aero changes everything. It's such a huge wildcard, IMO, that it can make more difference than, say, Hoosiers vs. RA1s/Kumhos. So, any "spec" series that seeks to differentiate drivers' skill would suffer. And frankly, I think it just runs counter to the overall philosophy of the S2000 as a car that's track-ready from the showroom. So, allow them in unlimited, but not in the "driver's" classes.

 

good thread. Good way to create more driver competition without a "complicated" mod-based handicapping.