The Novice thing still gets me, especially when you talk about bumping them, up or down. Let's say a Novice driver comes to all the events, and by event 10 is running pretty well. So you bump him up to the "pro" class. Now he's at a disadvantage in BOTH series as he will have at most about 10 events in each. I also think we should really consider what we're trying to accomplish with the novices. I mean, timing as a novice is one thing. Making them feel like they're in a major competition can only hinder their progress IMO. Had I been that worried about competing when I was just learning I wouldn't have been paying enough attention to learning to be smooth, to turn in at the right time and properly, and all of the other things that I still suck at despite not having been in a competition as a rookie. The irony is that those things will make you faster but are probably not the things a rookie is going to be thinking about if he's thinking about fastest time.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by desert tortoise
[B]I think a novice should be bumped when they get within a certain percentage (say 4%) of the best driver in the corresponding non-Novice class.

 

One thing to note about Novice class: auto-x works the same way. You get a max of 3 events in Novice, and if you get a trophy, you're out, even if it's your first event (I know, it happened to me :-D). It kind of sucks because you could use the extra time to learn without thinking so much about the competition. Not sure what else you can do, though, and still be fair.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by desert tortoise
[B]OK folks.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by jzr
[B]

I noticed the points for front aerodynamics just doubled - is that some sort of preemptive strike?

 

You gotta make the adjustable wing different than a fixed wing... fixed off the shelf wings are cheap. I think even JZR would agree that the time, effort and craftsmanship are not likely to be duplicated by most - thus the higher points value. What's lost in the noise, unfortunately, is the creativity that it took to come up with such an idea. That, as it always seems is the case, is being rewarded with a sharp stick in the eye. That being said, I still strongly vote for a different point value for fixed wings (that don't stick out more than 6" from the body) versus custom built adjustable wings.

 

I think we've worked hard to establish our classing scheme (STOCK, MOD, UL). Therefore, since it's already in place, we should apply it to the novices, not just ignore it. The novices will class their cars, just like the rest of us. However, they will compete for the same 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place trophies in their single class. Once they've classed themselves out we give those novices who have UNLIMITED-prepped cars +2 seconds, MOD-prepped cars +1 second, and STOCK cars +0 seconds (for example)

This is not necessarily fair and adds another level of guess-work as to the value of each preparation level of car. But it at least it makes the novices feel like there is some fairness in the system and some novice with a STOCK prepped car doesn't have to feel completely jipped since he lost by a half second to a novice with a supercharger and coilovers. We could make it +4, +3, and +0 or some other handicapping system. Or +1, +.05, and +0. All it does is make it simple, make the novices get used to classing their cars, and enables us to know how closely they are running to those of us in the Competition classes. I'm not saying it's a perfect system, but that's ok, it's not really the point for novices.

I also think novice = slow, not novice = beginner. I think if someone with a MOD-prepped car consistently runs (e.g.) 15 seconds slower than the fastest time in the Comp. classes, he should not be required to move up, even if he's been to 20 events. He should continue to be able to run in Novice the rest of his life. This would allow people to wait for a while before being forced to move up (as paineinthe points out).

Anyone in a STOCK, MOD, or UL car running in novice that gets within 4 or 5% of the best time in the comp classes (MOD for example) for two consecutive events (that he attends), gets bumped. Just one event could be a fluke; the leading driver in MOD could have had a bad day and the novice driver in MOD could have had a great day.

I don't see why the novice guys shouldn't be able to compete for a year-end championship even though one person could improve really quickly and be good enough to beat everyone in the comp classes half-way through the year. But I also like cthree's idea of having them be stand alone events with no points total. I'm not sure what to think on that topic. Any novices want to weigh in on this?
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re. the wings. I think 30 pts. is fair for a fixed wing even though it's cheap, but I don't care if they're less points either; that just means everyone would have them and that would be kind of cool.

And yes, I was planning a preemptive strike on front aero mods since they seem to be very complex to develop (unlike the wing which you can pick up from 10,000 different sources for cheap). Because of their complexity, and the fact that they make the car less streetable by lowering the front even further. The diffuser and other stuff that requires an inventive person should also be more points (invention = cost as Saini points out).

I guess the adjustable wing should be 40 pts?

 

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by desert tortoise
[B]
I don't see why the novice guys shouldn't be able to compete for a year-end championship even though one person could improve really quickly and be good enough to beat everyone in the comp classes half-way through the year.

 

THUS WHY I'M IN UNLIMITED(japanese translation: mugen)