stock AP2, w AP1 rear bar?
07-06-2009, 01:55 PM
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stock AP2, w AP1 rear bar?
Guys,
Has anybody out there tried to run the 00-01 AP1 rear bar on an otherwise stock 2004-2005 AP2 to help with turn in and or reduce push. I habe maxed the alignmnet settings and looking for a subtle improvement. I'm running225/255 tires, for AUTOX and street.
thanks in advance...
~Bruce
Has anybody out there tried to run the 00-01 AP1 rear bar on an otherwise stock 2004-2005 AP2 to help with turn in and or reduce push. I habe maxed the alignmnet settings and looking for a subtle improvement. I'm running225/255 tires, for AUTOX and street.
thanks in advance...
~Bruce
07-06-2009, 02:09 PM
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^ I agree. The 02-03 is the largest non-aftermarket rear bar you can get for the S2000. It is thicker than the CR bar.
Thickest rear bar: 02-03
Thickest front bar: CR or 00-01
Thickest rear bar: 02-03
Thickest front bar: CR or 00-01
07-06-2009, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by VitaRenovatio,Jul 6 2009, 02:09 PM
^ I agree. The 02-03 is the largest non-aftermarket rear bar you can get for the S2000. It is thicker than the CR bar.
Thickest rear bar: 02-03
Thickest front bar: CR or 00-01
Thickest rear bar: 02-03
Thickest front bar: CR or 00-01
According to physics calculations in the following thread, 00-01 is definately the firmest.
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.ph...c=599463&st=25
07-06-2009, 02:23 PM
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It is my understanding that the 00-01 is the same diamenter as the 02-03, but has a greater wall section, hense the stiffest non CR bar.
Has anyone used a thicker bar on an AP2 to help reduce push???
Has anyone used a thicker bar on an AP2 to help reduce push???
07-06-2009, 02:28 PM
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The following is pulled of of our sight from an earier post, not sure of the author or validity?
1), 2) A simplistic explaination, stiffer springs/anti-roll bar will decrease the cornering tire efficiency, reducing overal traction on that end of the car (front or back). Stiffer front push, stiffer rear loose, softer front loose, softer rear push.
3), 4) There is no one "neutral" setting. That is a driver preference specific thing depending on their driving style and driving application. Spring/bar settings are just one factor in adusting the handling, with tires, dampers, suspension geometry, alignment, etc. IMO, understanding the model year differences and their handling characteristics are helpful to understand how the S2000 works. Maybe there is a cheap way to mix and match stock parts to suit a particular driver, but ultimate track performance will require mucho expensive suspension bits and tuning.
5) '04's has been tweaked to get more pushy and have a more linear response at the limit. Probably reduced max. cornering limit.
Here's all the technical bits about suspension, I've collected though s2ki.com threads and internet searching. Still would like to get the '02/'03 spring rates though.
'00/'01
- front anti-roll bar: hollow bar, 28.2mm dia., 5mm wall thickness
- rear anti-roll bar: hollow bar, 27.2mm dia., 5.3mm wall thickness
- front spring rate: 219 lbs/in
- rear spring rate: 291 lbs/in
- front OEM tire: SO2, 205/55/R16 (smaller tread width than normal)
- rear OEM tire: SO2, 225/50/R16 (equivalent 245 normal tread width)
'02/'03
- front anti-roll bar: hollow bar, 26.5mm dia., 4.5mm wall thickness (%? softer)
- rear anti-roll bar: hollow bar, 27.2mm dia., 4.5mm wall thickness (%? softer)
- front spring rate: measured 11% thicker (?% stiffer)
- rear spring rate: measured 20% thinner (?% softer)
- front OEM tire: SO2, 205/55/R16 (smaller tread width than normal)
- rear OEM tire: SO2, 225/50/R16 (equivalent 245 normal tread width)
'04
- front anti-roll bar: hollow bar, 26.5mm dia., 4.5mm wall thickness
- rear anti-roll bar: hollow bar, 25.4mm dia., 4.5mm wall thickness
- front spring rate: 6.7% stiffer (assume compared to '02/'03)
- rear spring rate: 10% softer (assume compared to '02/'03)
- damper valving adjusted
- front OEM tire: RE050, 215/45/R17
- rear OEM tire: RE050, 245/40/R17
- changed rear suspension geometry, different knuckle and subframe attatchment point
- rear roll center dropped from 101mm (assume all previous gen) to 92mm
- rear toe curve less extreme from -0.19 degree toe @ 50mm bump (assume all previous gen), -0.05 degree toe @ 50mm bump
1), 2) A simplistic explaination, stiffer springs/anti-roll bar will decrease the cornering tire efficiency, reducing overal traction on that end of the car (front or back). Stiffer front push, stiffer rear loose, softer front loose, softer rear push.
3), 4) There is no one "neutral" setting. That is a driver preference specific thing depending on their driving style and driving application. Spring/bar settings are just one factor in adusting the handling, with tires, dampers, suspension geometry, alignment, etc. IMO, understanding the model year differences and their handling characteristics are helpful to understand how the S2000 works. Maybe there is a cheap way to mix and match stock parts to suit a particular driver, but ultimate track performance will require mucho expensive suspension bits and tuning.
5) '04's has been tweaked to get more pushy and have a more linear response at the limit. Probably reduced max. cornering limit.
Here's all the technical bits about suspension, I've collected though s2ki.com threads and internet searching. Still would like to get the '02/'03 spring rates though.
'00/'01
- front anti-roll bar: hollow bar, 28.2mm dia., 5mm wall thickness
- rear anti-roll bar: hollow bar, 27.2mm dia., 5.3mm wall thickness
- front spring rate: 219 lbs/in
- rear spring rate: 291 lbs/in
- front OEM tire: SO2, 205/55/R16 (smaller tread width than normal)
- rear OEM tire: SO2, 225/50/R16 (equivalent 245 normal tread width)
'02/'03
- front anti-roll bar: hollow bar, 26.5mm dia., 4.5mm wall thickness (%? softer)
- rear anti-roll bar: hollow bar, 27.2mm dia., 4.5mm wall thickness (%? softer)
- front spring rate: measured 11% thicker (?% stiffer)
- rear spring rate: measured 20% thinner (?% softer)
- front OEM tire: SO2, 205/55/R16 (smaller tread width than normal)
- rear OEM tire: SO2, 225/50/R16 (equivalent 245 normal tread width)
'04
- front anti-roll bar: hollow bar, 26.5mm dia., 4.5mm wall thickness
- rear anti-roll bar: hollow bar, 25.4mm dia., 4.5mm wall thickness
- front spring rate: 6.7% stiffer (assume compared to '02/'03)
- rear spring rate: 10% softer (assume compared to '02/'03)
- damper valving adjusted
- front OEM tire: RE050, 215/45/R17
- rear OEM tire: RE050, 245/40/R17
- changed rear suspension geometry, different knuckle and subframe attatchment point
- rear roll center dropped from 101mm (assume all previous gen) to 92mm
- rear toe curve less extreme from -0.19 degree toe @ 50mm bump (assume all previous gen), -0.05 degree toe @ 50mm bump
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07-06-2009, 02:35 PM
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^ Very nice information!
http://www.modified.com/features/sccp_0806..._reservoir.html
This article tested an 02-03 AP1, and their sway bar numbers agrees with the above. Also, the spring rates were shown to be 249 lbs/in front, 306 lbs/in rear. I was told that the 02-03 rear bar is the stiffest, but it seems I've been misinformed, and the 00-01 rear bar is ~10% stiffer than the 02-03 bar.
http://www.modified.com/features/sccp_0806..._reservoir.html
This article tested an 02-03 AP1, and their sway bar numbers agrees with the above. Also, the spring rates were shown to be 249 lbs/in front, 306 lbs/in rear. I was told that the 02-03 rear bar is the stiffest, but it seems I've been misinformed, and the 00-01 rear bar is ~10% stiffer than the 02-03 bar.
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