I would say does not change the toe curve AS MUCH rather than at all. The AP2 still has a bump toe curve but it is not as drastic as the AP1

 

100% Guarantee you that a BSK is beneficial on an AP2. One. Hundred. Percent.

 

And who provides this service?

I think that's the big problem that people are having with KW - not rebuildable/serviceable by anyone other than KW authorized dealers. Said authorized dealers will not re-valve the shocks for you.

TWF was working on this with robrob a while ago.

KW will not supply/sell the tools or parts needed to do a re-valve on their v3 or ClubSport line. You need to shell out the big bucks for a full on racing/competition damper to get access to all of those other services.

 

Shooting from memory, I have around -2.3 camber front and back (pretty much whatever max I could put on). Front toe is 0, rear is -.25. Driving on the street it feels totally fine, but I'm not able to really push those limits to know for sure. Next time I get out to the track I'll know for sure, but I'm just assuming there is a problem at the limits now. As for suspension, they are the springs that came with the KWv3's and I forget exactly what I have them set at now, but I started at their recommendations and tweaked the fronts slightly since. They were installed with the minimum drop possible. I know I have room to make the fronts more stiff and soften up the rears to help reduce oversteer and can "dial in the suspension", but I was assuming that suspension tuning alone wouldn't be enough to overcome the square setup and need to do SOMETHING in addition as well. Maybe I'm incorrect in my thinking, but I would sooner increase my grip in the rear w/ a wing than lower my grip in the front with a crazy big swaybar. I also think it will be easier for me to dial in suspension+wing at the track than swaybar+suspension at the track.

 

I do not have specifics, I have never dealt with KW before. I was speaking in general terms in the fact that stating "KW V3" may or may not tell the whole story about this particular setup as it can vary. Suspension tuning is simple and straight forward if you go about things in small steps and have all of the variables to the equation in front of you.

There is a small VA based outfit producing some serious damper tech that is flying a bit under the radar IMO. I have compared their curves to those of a certain swedish company and the results are quite impressive to say the least. I am getting a bit off topic but feel free to PM.

 

I would add stiffer front springs not a sway bar. Aero tuning is tricky as it is progressive. The benefit changes based on speed, wing height and AoA. Suspension tuning is consistent and will react the same no matter the speed. Again if you can pinpoint at what part of the corner (entry, mid, exit) you're experiencing oversteer it would give us a much better chance of giving productive advice.

 

I understand what you are saying and can't disagree with anything said, but I would think springs are a can or worms that will take R&D time that only a race team would have and even if I got it right on the first time, it would probably make the car rather painful to drive through all the potholes in Philly. For now I was really looking for that 5000ft elevation advice and not anything like "hey, I'm getting loose on the back end on track-out of the off-camber turn at the heal of the boot at Watkins glenn". I don't have a ton of experience tuning my suspension, but I have done it slightly and figure it is good for final tweaking of the balance, but not for actually correcting something like a sudden 10% comparable increase in front wheel traction area (going from 225/245 to 255/255). The car used to understeer at low speeds and I usually could manage to create a very slight oversteer situation on track-outs, but generally the car was very easy to control. I'm assuming now if I do nothing, that understeer at slow speed will be gone, but my track-out oversteer will get worse... how much worse, I don't know and maybe its enough to fix simply with adjusting my coilovers, but I won't be able to say for sure until I actually try it myself... or find someone who has already tried it and learn from them .

Anybody with 255/255 setups that track their car but also drive it on the street care to chime in on what they found to work and what they found didn't work?


I guess my biggest specific fear going into thunderbolt with my car right now (and assuming at high speed my rear will get light and oversteer will be "worse", is that I will carry more speed out of the final end of the esses heading to the front strait at 110+, maybe clip the rumble strip on the outside of the turn as I enter the strait and suddenly find myself spinning around on the front strait at full speed w/ a nice concrete pit wall right where my spin is going to carry me. Now I could be just being paranoid, but I figure the wing is the solution for that and not the anti-swaybar or suspension tuning.

 

Regarding the BSK on an AP2, I thought I seen that the AP2 doesn't have any dynamic toe but I can't find any graphs now. Either way, that is not a requirement I don't think.

As for not wanting to get a sway bar because you don't want to "remove grip" from the front. That is not a sound argument. If you car has overteer, that means you have extra grip that is doing nothing in the front. You are not removing grip, you are transferring it to the rear where it is needed and your overall grip will go up. You need to get your roll rates setup. Whether you do it with sway bars, spring, or both, I think you need to do something besides just add a wing.

 

I have the APR gtc-200, it depends how much wing you run but it works in 60mph corners... usualy the corners that are slow you would want to rotate the car anyways.
With the springs go around 100lbs more up front you will be fine

 

thanks dan and the others.

@ndogg, I would agree that IF there is oversteer, there is more grip in the front, but (and I could be wrong) I don't follow the logic you give about how adding a swaybar in the front improves grip in the rear as opposed to removes grip from the front. By linking the front wheels and making a turn it does not allow the inside front wheel to make full contact with the ground which in the extreme is why you see some cars actually lift a front wheel up in a turn: http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...011DL-5157.jpg I don't know that can actually mean the car would have more overall grip than a car with all four wheels on the ground. I"m not saying adding a swaybar isn't a valid way to reduce oversteer, but I"m honestly curious if it is actually better than a wing.

I think I'm going to go wing as the turns I'm concerned about are faster and as dan said so nicely, the slow turns are better to have slight oversteer on anyway.