Corvette vs. S2000
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Joined: Feb 2001
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From: You wish
Not bashing on Corvettes or anything (I think the LS1/LS6 engines are fantastic), but the LS1 is not as light as the F20C. Simply put, they're both made of aluminum, which means that unless the valvetrain on the S2K adds a whole lot of weight, the LS1 will be heavier. Twice as many pistons, twice as many rods, same number of valves (but the LS1's are bigger). The cranks probably weigh about the same. An LS1 cylinder head is probably lighter than an F20C head, but not much (a bare F20C head is around 28 lbs, fully dressed its about 34-35 lbs). But the LS1 has two of them. And then the block casting has to be heavier since you have 8 cylinders.
All in all, if you measure power density (power/unit mass or power/unit volume) the Corvette LS1 is probably right there or even better than the F20C, but it is not lighter in absolute terms. Hell, the F20C doesn't weigh much more than an old Honda D-series and I can lift one of those complete, minus the header and distributor, by myself. I've never been able to pick up a small block Chevy motor!
UL
All in all, if you measure power density (power/unit mass or power/unit volume) the Corvette LS1 is probably right there or even better than the F20C, but it is not lighter in absolute terms. Hell, the F20C doesn't weigh much more than an old Honda D-series and I can lift one of those complete, minus the header and distributor, by myself. I've never been able to pick up a small block Chevy motor!
UL
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 2,895
Likes: 1
From: You wish
Shizon,
If you're really interested in the F20C specs, spend a couple bucks for the SAE article download on the engine. Honda went to huge lengths to make the engine as small and light as possible, including going to cast in fiber reinforced liners. Personally, I've never seen actual weight numbers for the F20C, but I have got numbers for the LS1.
From the Aug/Sept 2001 issue of RaceTech. An interview with GM Motorsports engine specialist John Rice about the Corvette Racing effort.
"The LS1 engines raced in 2001 weighed approximately 390 lbs, 20 lbs less than in 2000. This is an area in which further improvements are anticipated."
"'We event went too far in some areas and had to back up a bit,' admits Rice. 'But we will have to decide how hard we will go after each pound...'
"'For 2001 we signed up for a sprint engine in the 375-380 lbs range, which we can get pretty close to....I think the 2002 Le Mans engine should weigh around 380 lbs."
Keep in mind this is a race engine, with plenty of carbon fiber pieces and mass reduction everywhere (sometimes too much as evidenced by the quote). I can guarantee the production engine is somewhat heavier (especially if you include an A/C compressor, etc.). I don't know if that data includes the flywheel or not (is the clutch in the tranny or on the engine in the Corvette?).
Now, for the S2000, we do know the crank comes in the 40 lbs range, as does a fully dressed head. Pistons each weigh about 1 lbs according to Spoon and the rods are probably close. The intake manifold is sub 10 lbs and the header (which I don't know is included in weight estimates) comes in around 25-30 lbs. Valve cover is only a couple of lbs as are the associated sensors, coil packs, etc. That leaves a block casting, oil pan and crank/timing gears. The typical steel Honda oil pan is sub 10 lbs and the cam gears each weigh in around 1 lbs. Call the crank pulley 5 lbs and the other associated miscellany 10 lbs. Add in 80-100 lbs for the block itself and you're around 250 lbs. Water pump, alternator, etc. will add another 10-15 lbs each. I'd say we're probably looking at 300 lbs before the tranny gets added on.
But in essence, if you go back to the basics, its pretty simple. Cancel out things like water pumps, alternators, oil pumps, headers, even the intake manifold. Which engine do you think has a heavier crank? Bigger block? More pistons/rods? Again, the LS1 might have a superior power density, but it is certainly heavier.
UL
If you're really interested in the F20C specs, spend a couple bucks for the SAE article download on the engine. Honda went to huge lengths to make the engine as small and light as possible, including going to cast in fiber reinforced liners. Personally, I've never seen actual weight numbers for the F20C, but I have got numbers for the LS1.
From the Aug/Sept 2001 issue of RaceTech. An interview with GM Motorsports engine specialist John Rice about the Corvette Racing effort.
"The LS1 engines raced in 2001 weighed approximately 390 lbs, 20 lbs less than in 2000. This is an area in which further improvements are anticipated."
"'We event went too far in some areas and had to back up a bit,' admits Rice. 'But we will have to decide how hard we will go after each pound...'
"'For 2001 we signed up for a sprint engine in the 375-380 lbs range, which we can get pretty close to....I think the 2002 Le Mans engine should weigh around 380 lbs."
Keep in mind this is a race engine, with plenty of carbon fiber pieces and mass reduction everywhere (sometimes too much as evidenced by the quote). I can guarantee the production engine is somewhat heavier (especially if you include an A/C compressor, etc.). I don't know if that data includes the flywheel or not (is the clutch in the tranny or on the engine in the Corvette?).
Now, for the S2000, we do know the crank comes in the 40 lbs range, as does a fully dressed head. Pistons each weigh about 1 lbs according to Spoon and the rods are probably close. The intake manifold is sub 10 lbs and the header (which I don't know is included in weight estimates) comes in around 25-30 lbs. Valve cover is only a couple of lbs as are the associated sensors, coil packs, etc. That leaves a block casting, oil pan and crank/timing gears. The typical steel Honda oil pan is sub 10 lbs and the cam gears each weigh in around 1 lbs. Call the crank pulley 5 lbs and the other associated miscellany 10 lbs. Add in 80-100 lbs for the block itself and you're around 250 lbs. Water pump, alternator, etc. will add another 10-15 lbs each. I'd say we're probably looking at 300 lbs before the tranny gets added on.
But in essence, if you go back to the basics, its pretty simple. Cancel out things like water pumps, alternators, oil pumps, headers, even the intake manifold. Which engine do you think has a heavier crank? Bigger block? More pistons/rods? Again, the LS1 might have a superior power density, but it is certainly heavier.
UL
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 898
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From: Redlands
The S was not built with drag racing in mind. The Vette was. The Vette is larger and does have more of a luxury car feel. Mine had the suspension/handling package, so it rode a bit rough. The S drives like a track car - no forgiveness on bumps. I see Vettes every day. I see an S every week. I've owned a Vette and now have an S. To each his/her own - I've made my choice!
