do im about 100 hrs away lol

 

[QUOTE]Quote from Steve C:

"Not only is the author of that wonderful post obviously failing to read any (not even some or most) of the posts accurately, he takes it further with even more outlandish claims regarding the cost of the 04 motor and why Honda still uses the original in other markets."

Are you suggesting, Steve C, that the new 2.2 engine is not more expensive to build? Did you read the article on Temple of Vtec? If you are making this suggestion, then readers can judge for themselves how reliable your grip on reality, or manufacturing, is. Just retooling costs money. Design costs money. These changes were expensive for Honda. Your entitled to your opinion, but if you are going to dismiss mine as being outlandish, I'm going to question your understanding of basic economics. Profits result after expenses. That last thing a manufacturer wants to do from a profit standpoint is to have to significantly redesign a car after only 3 years. They did this with future, long term, profits and image advantages in mind.

As to the ratio of expense to profit, well, that's pretty basic economic thought. It is a fact that manufacturers are often ahead of the car production line in engine construction. Extra engines are made, for example, in case of failures. The RX7 was natorious for actually running out of engines way sooner than it should have. I think that both of my suggestions, the need to use up extra engine inventory coupled with the desire to maximize profits, are quite plausible as to why the U.S. is getting this engine first. My statements are not "outlandish."

 

i am only 1.5 to 2 hours away. i started coming to this forum to get more info on my MY04. and while i have seen some willing to share in a polite and civil tone - there have been more with poorer attitudes.

while i would like to help settle this dispute between MY04 and MY00-03 hondas... i didn't buy the car because of what anyone else thinks about my car. i bought it for me, and you know what? i'm prety darned happy with it.

so good luck finding someone willing to put their car through the ringer to see who's car makes more HP and TQ.

in the end, if you aren't happy with your purchase MY00-03 or MY04, sell your car and buy something that will make you happy. life is too short!

 

I would venture a guess that Europeans have the 2.0 litre engine for insurance and tax reasons? Isn't the 2.0 a threshold limit for those?

 

Steve C:

I believe we (well some of us that bother to read the responses in these threads) made a reasonable assumption about the 2.2L engines being more $ to build on the simple fact that it has been reported that dummy heads are being bolted onto the blocks during the line boring process. This is a time consuming extra step, and time is money in mfg. That is based on my 28 years as a mech engineer/ IT professional working in a SOTA mfg facility. I could be wrong.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by steve c

 

Thanks -- that makes sense. Not to the tune of thousands or even hundreds of dollars, but I guess 20 bucks here and 10 there ... still I wonder why the use of a dummy head. Line boring is a common enough process without such things ..

Things like new cup holders making the car more expensive to produce don't make much sense. These changes are normal and even take place within the same model year on various cars.

 

You could. Like in the F20C engines also having dummy heads bolted onto the blocks etc... during the manufacturing process. Or the fact that the F22C has exactly the same geometry of many other 2.2L Honda engines, suggesting some tools savings, et cetera.

Why don't we give this a rest? Let's see some customer MY04 being dynoed or performance tested against previous year models, and then settle.

 

You people crack me up.

The crankshaft is straight out of a late model H22 with a turned down snout. The later model H22's have a large main journal crank which drops right into an F20 thus making an F22. Note that the earlier H22's have cranks with smaller mains and will not drop in. Bore is the same in the F20 and F22 (I think). I have not torn apart an F22 (yet), but I'm pretty confident they went with shorter rods which lessens the 1.81 R/S of the F20. Hence, higher piston velocity and lower rpm.

No great secrets, no magical manufacturing process. Just the same old part bin swapping that has been the mainstay of the domestic market since the beginning of time. ie, it was a CHEAP upgrade that Honda could provide to satisfy the the US market.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Luis