this is my first stick, and i've driven it for a few months now. usually when i come to a stop or a corner, i just clutch in, pop it into neutral, and brake until i need to get back on the throttle again. then i clutch in, shift to the gear i want, blip the gas to avoid a jerk, and drive off.

I've been doing some searches on downshift methods, and i must say that i don't understand some of what's going on; and being an engineer, i want to know what's going on with what i'm doing.

there was a thread i read that said rev-matching while the clutch is in wears the clutch. is that true? i thought the point of rev-matching is to match the flywheel speed to the transmission input shaft speed; how does that still cause clutch wear?
if i understand this correctly, when you downshift with the clutch in (as in NOT double clutching), you force the synchros to work because the transmission input shaft must match the output shaft, but i don't see how that wears the clutch. can someone explain?

here's my understanding of double clutching:
1: clutch in
2: select neutral
3: clutch out
4: blip gas
5: clutch in
6: select gear
7: clutch out
my question here is: b/w steps 5 and 7 when you select your gear, do you need to blip the gas again? it seems that after step 5, engine speed will drop towards idle since the clutch is in. sounds like a lot of steps for a newb at stick haha

heel/toe: can't try it because i just f'ed my right ankle, so i can't really roll it because i drive with an air cast on haha

heel/toe WITH double clutching: way too much to try to diguest right now

i'm sure most of you have more experience than me with stick, so please comment. i'd really like to know what the heck i'm doing with such a proper car

 

Double clutching is completely unnecessary unless your driving a big rig.

Basically the technique is used to get the large gears in the transmission of the semi moving prior to engaging the gears to make for smoother shifting.

As far as down shifitng techniques, first try rev matching. when coasting at say 60mph in 6th gear, blip the throttle, and at the same time clutch and shift into 5th. This should be a quick movement.

When you get this down... 6th to 5th... 4th to 3rd, 3rd to 2nd... let us know os we can guide to through your lesson on heal-toe.

BTW dont downshift into 1st gear.

 

not even on a semi tractor.
i revmatch when driving a big rig. i only use clutch for first ans reverse.

look up a bunch of those japanese videos where they shoe split screen of in cab driving and pedal footwork.
that would explain perfectly what and how downshifting works.

 

well ive driven tractor trailers for a good 4 years in the military and i can tell you that there's no need to double clutch the s2000. the only reason we double clutched the semis was the lack of synchronizers for most semis.

as for blipping the throttle everytime you downshift it's good practice i think i do it only because ive ridden bikes for a long time and its always good to be in the right gear and right rpm to have good traction to the ground, this could possibly apply to the s2000 since it could get a little tail happy.

in city driving this is not so much a concern but rev matching is essential when your'e canyon carving as to have the car in the right gear and powerband when taking the curves as opposed to coasting which takes away traction.

 

60 for 6-->5 shift?!

Try 60 for 4-->3 shift. Puts you nicely in VTEC in AP1 and ready to accelerate off in your powerband. You had the sequence right. Just need to give a big enough blip and shift fast enough to complete the "rev-match" with the rpms at the right level.

Since you're an engineer, look at this:


These are stock AP1 gear ratios.
Say you're in 4th gear going 60mph. That's about 4500rpms.
3rd gear at 60mph is 6000 rpms. So you have to give a big blip PAST 6k rpms so that as the tach is falling you hit 6k when you pop out the clutch. I'd rev to 8k or so and catch it on the way down.

 

oops...already did that a few times (at pretty low speeds) i've noticed that it just doesn't want to go into 1st sometimes, in which case i just throw it into 2nd, which is smooth as butter

 

yes, i've actually watched quite a few of those videos, but they're SO ridiculously fast
when they heel/toe shift, i just stare in awe, because everything is in 1 smooth motion, so it's hard for me to pick up what they're actually doing step by step.

 

thanks for the advice; i'm going to work on rev-matching first to get that down.

does anyone want to comment on the stuff i read about clutch wear due to rev-matching with the clutch held in the whole time (in other words, not double clutching)?

 

Personally, I double clutch out of habit. When I try to make myself do a conventional heel-toe downshift, I always screw it up. The double tap on the clutch pedal is too integral to my timing.

I got into the habit driving my previous car, which had an icky transmission when I bought it. Shifting without any kind of revmatch was awful, heel and toe made things okay, but a good double-clutched downshift made the gear change effortless. The habit carried over to my S2000.

It doesnt make as big a difference in this car, but I think it DOES make a difference. Its also easier for me, so *shrug*. I can do the whole process in a fraction of a second, and its one of my favorite things about driving, so im not going to stop.

My process (assuming I'm not braking) goes like this:

Ease off the gas and clutch in enough to put the car in neutral.

Let the clutch out.

Blip the throttle (foot hovering over the clutch pedal)

Lightly clutch in and slip into the next lowest gear.

Let the clutch out.


I blend it all into one action. Takes less than a second. Still not as fast as I am downshifting a motorcycle's sequential box, but the actions are a bit more cmoplicated and the shift and clutch throws are a lot longer.

Whats fun is rapidly downshifting from 5th to 2nd, under hard braking, double de-clutching each shift in order. One of the most satisfying things in all of driving (to me anyways).


Bottom line is this: practice, and practice doing everything SLOW. It wont be smooth at first, just build muscle memory.

A good exercise is to get up to 30 or so, coast in neutral, and practice bringing the engine up to speed and putting the car into second gear smoothly.

Dont bother with the double clutching. ITs probably not needed, as most people said. I just picked it up because it felt right in a previous car.

Also, master heel-toe *off* the brakes. Worry about doing it while braking at a later date.

 

Oh, regarding clutch wear:

Your clutch has a few key parts. The ones that wear out are the friction disc and the throwout bearing.

If you rev match with the clutch pedal depressed in such a manner that the friction disc is still rubbing against the flywheel and pressure plate, you will put undue wear on the disc. This is the same as slipping your clutch off the line.

When you downshift, the pedal should be in far enough that the disc is free of the pressure plate and flywheel.

Every time you push the clutch pedal in, you use the throwout bearing to apply pressure to the clutch diapgragm. More times you push the pedal in, more of a workout that bearnig gets.

My take is this: if you're downshifting properly, you are, at worst, trading a small decrease in friction disc wear for a small increase in throwout bearing wear.

I wouldnt worry about it. Improperly downshifting and feathering the clutch to match speeds is going to cause way more wear than any revmatched downshift.