2003 S2000
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From: Fraser
JT-KGY - if you read all the stuff before that post - you would probably see that everyone had a bit of emotion flowing. 325 stated that the 2000 with a sc might keep a driver amused "for a while," to which I took offense, considering he drove a sedan, and had only test drove a 2000, albeit "spiritedly." I think we all were enjoying the banter - guess you had to be there.
I think bmw321's post after mine reveals much. Isn't it amazing how people can be lead to believe everything that advertisers tell them to - re; "Ultimate Driving Machines..."
BTW, my wife wanted me to point out that the 325 tended to the the sweet 16 gift most of her girlfriends wanted, or a high school graduation present... (not where I grew up)
Let's all try to keep things in context before we start calling eachother a**holes...
Happy New Year
I think bmw321's post after mine reveals much. Isn't it amazing how people can be lead to believe everything that advertisers tell them to - re; "Ultimate Driving Machines..."
BTW, my wife wanted me to point out that the 325 tended to the the sweet 16 gift most of her girlfriends wanted, or a high school graduation present... (not where I grew up)
Let's all try to keep things in context before we start calling eachother a**holes...
Happy New Year
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From: Alhambra
Why does people get so defensive when other mention BMW??
And why so hard to appreciate a company that makes cars fun to drive
yet still practical in the same time? It puts luxury, practicality, sportiness,
style (some might not agree but this is very subjective) and prestige all
in one box... Almost the entire line of models could be bought with manual
trannies (except X5 and 7 series?)... The entire line all have "near" 50/50
weight distribution ratio (yes, even the X5 does)... I think BMW deserve
some respect that they do build car with driving fun in mind.
After reading all posts on this thread... I found s2kskibum and
|<|2`/P70N173's posts way more offensive than BMW325CI's...
All BMW325CI said was S2000 lack of LOW end torque which is true depending
on what you're comaring to... (You've got to admit S2000 is definitely lacking
when comparing to SoCal Craig's Viper)...
I for one also thought it is lacking low end torque as well... I rented and tested a
01 with ~2500 miles... drove 20 miles on the freeway... couldn't really feel the vtec
kicking in... though the car is deceivingly fast..
Before you BMW-haters start to flame me.... I own a BMW and I am planning on buying
a new S2000 real soon... Just waiting for couple things to settle for me before I spend
big $$ on a new car...
And why so hard to appreciate a company that makes cars fun to drive
yet still practical in the same time? It puts luxury, practicality, sportiness,
style (some might not agree but this is very subjective) and prestige all
in one box... Almost the entire line of models could be bought with manual
trannies (except X5 and 7 series?)... The entire line all have "near" 50/50
weight distribution ratio (yes, even the X5 does)... I think BMW deserve
some respect that they do build car with driving fun in mind.
After reading all posts on this thread... I found s2kskibum and
|<|2`/P70N173's posts way more offensive than BMW325CI's...
All BMW325CI said was S2000 lack of LOW end torque which is true depending
on what you're comaring to... (You've got to admit S2000 is definitely lacking
when comparing to SoCal Craig's Viper)...
I for one also thought it is lacking low end torque as well... I rented and tested a
01 with ~2500 miles... drove 20 miles on the freeway... couldn't really feel the vtec
kicking in... though the car is deceivingly fast..
Before you BMW-haters start to flame me.... I own a BMW and I am planning on buying
a new S2000 real soon... Just waiting for couple things to settle for me before I spend
big $$ on a new car...
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From: Fraser
Not a BMW hater - really nice, well made cars - better than anything I've owned, with perhaps the exception of the 2000...
I wonder how well the 2000 you rented was running. Even at 9000 feet, where I live, the vtec kicking in is impressive feeling. But when you consider I drive a gmc2500 most of the time, I may not have much to compare it too - my friends focus felt fast!
I wonder how well the 2000 you rented was running. Even at 9000 feet, where I live, the vtec kicking in is impressive feeling. But when you consider I drive a gmc2500 most of the time, I may not have much to compare it too - my friends focus felt fast!
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From: Alhambra
Originally posted by s2kskibum
deleted to save space....
deleted to save space....
Yes, sorry about that a$$... comment...
I agree that 325s are just sedans albeit sports sedans... but BMW build cars for different markets...
NONE of BMW's cars are as pure of a sports car as the S2000... but they will always be quite competitive
even against sports cars...
I dont understand your comments to bmw325... all he said is that S2000 is lacking low end torque.. you
followed by saying 325's are for 80 years old and that he's in the wrong forum...
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From: sydney
[QUOTE]Originally posted by JT-KGY
[B]Why does people get so defensive when other mention BMW??
And why so hard to appreciate a company that makes cars fun to drive
yet still practical in the same time? It puts luxury, practicality, sportiness,
style (some might not agree but this is very subjective) and prestige all
in one box... Almost the entire line of models could be bought with manual
trannies (except X5 and 7 series?)... The entire line all have "near" 50/50
weight distribution ratio (yes, even the X5 does)... I think BMW deserve
some respect that they do build car with driving fun in mind.
Defensive???
hell no, i was attacking
yep - BMWs are pretty good, but who cares, this is a S2000 forum not a boring sedan forum....
[B]Why does people get so defensive when other mention BMW??
And why so hard to appreciate a company that makes cars fun to drive
yet still practical in the same time? It puts luxury, practicality, sportiness,
style (some might not agree but this is very subjective) and prestige all
in one box... Almost the entire line of models could be bought with manual
trannies (except X5 and 7 series?)... The entire line all have "near" 50/50
weight distribution ratio (yes, even the X5 does)... I think BMW deserve
some respect that they do build car with driving fun in mind.
Defensive???
hell no, i was attacking
yep - BMWs are pretty good, but who cares, this is a S2000 forum not a boring sedan forum....
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Posts: 953
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From: Alhambra
Originally posted by s2kskibum
Not a BMW hater - really nice, well made cars - better than anything I've owned, with perhaps the exception of the 2000...
I wonder how well the 2000 you rented was running. Even at 9000 feet, where I live, the vtec kicking in is impressive feeling. But when you consider I drive a gmc2500 most of the time, I may not have much to compare it too - my friends focus felt fast!
Not a BMW hater - really nice, well made cars - better than anything I've owned, with perhaps the exception of the 2000...
I wonder how well the 2000 you rented was running. Even at 9000 feet, where I live, the vtec kicking in is impressive feeling. But when you consider I drive a gmc2500 most of the time, I may not have much to compare it too - my friends focus felt fast!
Well.. it's all relative... like I already tell you...
I really can't "feel" the kick of the vtec... though by looking down at the speedo.. I know it's fast..
or maybe like you said.. I got an bad example..
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From: Alhambra
[QUOTE]Originally posted by |<|2`/P70N173
[B]
Hahahaha.. ok ok..
Really dont know who's the troll here...
Another nice and friendly S2000 owners...
[B]
Originally posted by JT-KGY
Why does people get so defensive when other mention BMW??
And why so hard to appreciate a company that makes cars fun to drive
yet still practical in the same time? It puts luxury, practicality, sportiness,
style (some might not agree but this is very subjective) and prestige all
in one box... Almost the entire line of models could be bought with manual
trannies (except X5 and 7 series?)... The entire line all have "near" 50/50
weight distribution ratio (yes, even the X5 does)... I think BMW deserve
some respect that they do build car with driving fun in mind.
Defensive???
hell no, i was attacking
yep - BMWs are pretty good, but who cares, this is a S2000 forum not a boring sedan forum....
Why does people get so defensive when other mention BMW??
And why so hard to appreciate a company that makes cars fun to drive
yet still practical in the same time? It puts luxury, practicality, sportiness,
style (some might not agree but this is very subjective) and prestige all
in one box... Almost the entire line of models could be bought with manual
trannies (except X5 and 7 series?)... The entire line all have "near" 50/50
weight distribution ratio (yes, even the X5 does)... I think BMW deserve
some respect that they do build car with driving fun in mind.
Defensive???
hell no, i was attacking
yep - BMWs are pretty good, but who cares, this is a S2000 forum not a boring sedan forum....
Hahahaha.. ok ok..
Really dont know who's the troll here...
Another nice and friendly S2000 owners...
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From: Duluth
Ok guys, how about a comment from someone with a car from each manufacturer. My wife drives an E46 323i with a sport package suspension, and I drive an S2000. Both are fine machines, but totally unrelated. Both cost about the same money. If I had to choose the better machine, I would go with the BMW. If I had to choose which I prefer to drive, it would obviously be the S.
BMW engineering is first rate (this coming from an engineer with 20+ years of experience), although a bit over-complex. The engine technology (throttle by wire, double vanos, etc.) is amazing. The car is a dream to drive, and it handles curves with a poise I have never felt in any other car. Yeah the 323 is kind of whimpy in the horsepower range, but overall it is fabulous. My only gripe is the throttle doesn't always go where I want it, primarily when I am upshifting and I ease off before I let off to shift. My wife still loves her two year old car like the day it was new, and I do too.
Now for the S. The design is minimalist, which is something I love. The engineering is minimalist too, and there is less to go wrong using this approach. For example, I prefer the simplicity of vtec's straight forward method of valve/cam adjustment to the complexity of a feedback control loop as used in the double vanos of the BMW. I'm not saying it works better, it is just simpler. The build quality is comparable on both cars.
The Honda is not as poised in corners near the limit; however, the limit is noticeably further out in the Honda. I suspect that if I had ultra-high performance tires on the BMW it would be a bit more exciting to corner with. The BMW dynamic stability control does tend to kick in and save your butt when you go too far, though (with 400 more pounds to throw around this is a relief). With the S, I have to drive it though, and I like that.
I'm sure the M3 takes all of this to a totally new level, but no matter what, it is not an S2000 and will never be. Perhaps the newly redesigned Z3 coming out next year will be more of a competitor.
BMW engineering is first rate (this coming from an engineer with 20+ years of experience), although a bit over-complex. The engine technology (throttle by wire, double vanos, etc.) is amazing. The car is a dream to drive, and it handles curves with a poise I have never felt in any other car. Yeah the 323 is kind of whimpy in the horsepower range, but overall it is fabulous. My only gripe is the throttle doesn't always go where I want it, primarily when I am upshifting and I ease off before I let off to shift. My wife still loves her two year old car like the day it was new, and I do too.
Now for the S. The design is minimalist, which is something I love. The engineering is minimalist too, and there is less to go wrong using this approach. For example, I prefer the simplicity of vtec's straight forward method of valve/cam adjustment to the complexity of a feedback control loop as used in the double vanos of the BMW. I'm not saying it works better, it is just simpler. The build quality is comparable on both cars.
The Honda is not as poised in corners near the limit; however, the limit is noticeably further out in the Honda. I suspect that if I had ultra-high performance tires on the BMW it would be a bit more exciting to corner with. The BMW dynamic stability control does tend to kick in and save your butt when you go too far, though (with 400 more pounds to throw around this is a relief). With the S, I have to drive it though, and I like that.
I'm sure the M3 takes all of this to a totally new level, but no matter what, it is not an S2000 and will never be. Perhaps the newly redesigned Z3 coming out next year will be more of a competitor.