In the thread I started yesterday (My S2000 in the woods) I described how I skidded down my driveway into the woods. The more I think about it, the more I think the ABS was part of the problem. My blacktop driveway was about half covered with ice, and half bare. I got good traction (with stock tires) on the bare spots, and almost no traction on the icy spots. My theory is that once I started skidding on the icy spot, the ABS noticed and let up on the brakes. I'm quite sure I was going over bare spots, but it was as if the ABS didn't react quickly enough to take advantage of the traction it could get there. I've driven in ice and snow all my life and I think I could have done a better job without the ABS. This is my first car with ABS, but I know it has it's limitations. I'd love to get an ABS education here so that I know what to expect in the future. Thanks.

 

ABS is a simple system designed simply to keep the wheels from locking up so that you are able to brake and steer without skidding. It can extend braking distances and may interfere with driver control in difficult situations.

I don

 

I'll add to what Chris said in that you will feel the pedal pulse when ABS engages. You may even hear a clicking sound...I have only engaged ABS once or twice on my S2000, but remember that clicking sound on the other Hondas I have had. But you definitely know when it kicks in...and as Chris said, it just prevents the wheels from locking up and skidding across the road...when you skid, you obviously have far less control and you're not really braking, you are just skidding.

Did you feel the pedal pulse when you slipping down your driveway?

Also, I read in some car mag a while back that in cars with ABS and cars without ABS, the statistical difference of accidents was insignificant. Meaning that the accident rate was the virtually the same for cars with and without ABS. But I think when it engages it is a benefit generally. I am the kind of driver that likes to have control and when things kick in automatically, it kind of bugs me...well, except for VTEC, I like it when that kicks in!

 

ABS delivers significantly longer panic braking distances on certain kinds of surfaces, snow and sand as two examples.

A locked wheel will "push" material in front of it as it slides through soft stuff, creating braking distance *much* shorter than with ABS turning down the brake pressure. My dual-sport BMW motorcycle has ABS brakes, and fortunately has an off switch for the ABS. I've had some close encounters off-road with ABS on, especially downhill. It is a scary feeling to be applying major brake pressure, not having the wheel lock, and not slowing down at all either!

In your sitiation however, ice mixed with bare spots, I would think the ABS would pulse over the bare spots and shorten the overall braking distance.

The biggest problem with the S2000 and ice, however, would be that the tires offer virtually zero traction on snow or ice.

 

Awhile back I read a detailed study of ABS pro's and con's in one of the big auto mags.

The only surface they could find that was disadventagous to ABS was shaved ice.

Shaved ice is apparantly somewhat common in the parking lots of ski lodges and mountin resorts. But otherwise a very rare road surface. They found that the plowing action of the tires slowed the car more without ABS than with it. I would think certain sandy, snowy surfaces could have similar effects, but their findings didn't support that.

I've read dozens of pundits claim they could outbrake ABS systems with threshold braking and such.

I think that "maybe" after multiple laps where they were familar with the surfaces and had practiced braking in those corners multiple times. And then (i think) they might be about as good.

But in everyday driving and especially emergency situations, ABS (IMHO) will win big every time.

[This message has been edited by Mikey (edited December 25, 2000).]

 

I've often wondered if ABS affects your ability to use a controlled slide in maneuvering around a sharp curve while braking? (agreed a slide isn't the optimal way to navigate most curves, but hey, its fun sometimes)

I've not been brave enough to try this in my S2000. It takes a lot to slide through a corner and frankly the thing is just to sweet to put into danger.

-B

 

Brad, in one of my posts a while back I talked about how I got into a similar situation going down a frozen motel driveway in Pennsylvania in a an ABS equipped BMW 735. Interestingly enough, if I remember rightly I think it was the 27th of December 1992 so it was almost exactly 8 years ago.

I had the same problem as you except the bottom of the driveway went straight out onto a major highway and I just managed to avoid sliding across 4 lanes of traffic .

In my opinion I would have been much better off without the ABS and I subsequently disabled it the following week.

I think you are correct in what you say in that the ABS does not seem to be intelligent enough to pick up when you are going across the none icy patches. I think this is unlikely to be an issue with the electronics but more to do with the time required to allow the brake pistons to retract sufficiently to allow the wheel to start moving again and then to reapply pressure to the pads. P.S. I am happy to stand corrected on this.

In general I have been pretty disappointed with ABS. I remember on my S2K driver education day 6 months ago the instructor criticised me for releasing brake pressure whilst negotiating cones on a wet skid pan. So next time through I did what he said and didn't let up on the brakes. Needless to say I did a 360 degree spin and collected a number of cones. That kinda proved to me that I should stick to my braking instincts (honed by 25+ years of wet weather motorcycling) rather than just trust ABS blindly.

 

Thanks for the posts. I do believe I could have done better without the ABS in this situation. Yes, it was pulsing. I've had the ABS activate plenty of times on my icy driveway with stock tires. It's possible that I was letting up on the pedal as I would have without ABS, but I think I was standing on the pedal...I can't really recall. I do know that it's a bad feeling to be rolling forward without the ability to slow down, even if you can steer!