man you guys are in the dark when it comes to chip tuning=) Here is a great link that describes what kinds of chips car use, how much info they hold, what sort of info is manipulated when they are changed etc. It was written by a friend of mine who works for ross-tech.com which makes VW/Audi diagnostic programs, think OBDtool but 100x better
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=452845
Anyway the chip is very cheap, commonly they cost a few bucks, but the programs for my POS 03 GTI are in the 500-1000 range
Mike

 

I wouldn't exactly say we're all in the dark about this stuff

Small processors themselves are cheap, but my question is "Are they using the standard off the shelf processors?". If they are, then gravy, program a new chip with the ROM data and be on your way. If they're using a custom version (which is QUITE cost effective when you're making 10's of thousands of them), the cost for a single would be hundreds or thousands of $, assuming you could even get a hold of one.

A second problem you encounter, even if they're using a standard processor, is getting the data off. Many chips nowadays use one or more data protection bits...set them once and the data cannot be read out. You can't even reset the bit(s) without overwriting part or all of the chip, so that's a useless attack. Now you're back to the drawing board of slicing the chip open and surfing the magnetic structure of the silicon...an expensive and time-consuming proposition. Personally, I flip a couple of bits when programming my processors and the entire codebase is protected from prying eyes...if someone wants to steal my design, the best they'll get is the hardware layout.

I read the thread mentioned, but I saw no real data as to how much info the chips hold, what info is manipulated, etc. It's nice to know who uses what method (complete replacement, daughtercard, etc.), but over and above that not a whole lot of useful info could be garnered from the thread.

 

I don't have the specific microprocessor spec handy, but I can tell you that Hondata looked into extensively. A reprogrammable memory version of the microprocessor that Honda uses for the S2000 costs somewhere close to $400/chip in small lots. That's assuming that the chip manufacturer will be willing to sell you the chip at all, let alone the reprogramming equipment. Trust me on this as Hondata ran into this issue. Apparently the Japanese semiconductor companies are very protective of their corporate clients - maybe a little kiretsu action going on? I don't know.

UL

 

Oh, and Hondata is fortunate enough to have complete code sets for the F20C and F22C ECU's, so if they ever decided to do a reprogrammable version, they can write the factory maps in with no problems. Its just cost prohibitive at this point.

UL

 

I don't know whether to say, "Hope springs eternal." or "There's a sucker born every minute."

 

I wouldn't touch it.

 

Cripes, UL....I'd ask Hondata for those code sets if I ever though in a million years they would give them up. Putting together an ECU based around pre-existing code wouldn't be hard at all!

 

Well, there's the issue of characterizing all the sensors, developing the drivers, etc. If it was that easy, AEM wouldn't have run into so many issues with their plug and play approach. Then again, I don't think they had the code sets either, so who knows.

UL