Does an S2000 really spin/crash that easy?
Joined: Mar 2016
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Originally Posted by jamesac83
I disagree, it's not any easier to spin.. as was pointed out by someone else, harder to recover when a spin/slide is initiated is more accurate. It's a sports car, it is not easier to spin than other sports cars. Compared to a fwd family sedan, or a minivan, sure.
I do enjoy the number of people putting all the blame on the drivers, while Honda worked to make the car less prone to oversteer. So perhaps the drivers aren't great, but the car wasn't helping matters. At least that's how Honda saw it.
Why are folks ashamed to say that the car can be tricky? People put the air cooled turbo 911s in the category of folklore and tall tales because of its handling. I'm certain owners wear the ability to control the car as a badge of pride. It's a flaw of the car, but it doesn't make it a bad car. The S2000 isn't in the same ballpark as that, but there is nothing wrong with saying that a car can be tricky to drive, so treat it with respect.
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Originally Posted by Nerd-Vol
Exactly. Having driven other sports cars with even shorter wheelbases, the S2000 does feel a bit more nervous. I do enjoy the number of people putting all the blame on the drivers, while Honda worked to make the car less prone to oversteer. So perhaps the drivers aren't great, but the car wasn't helping matters. At least that's how Honda saw it. Why are folks ashamed to say that the car can be tricky? People put the air cooled turbo 911s in the category of folklore and tall tales because of its handling. I'm certain owners wear the ability to control the car as a badge of pride. It's a flaw of the car, but it doesn't make it a bad car. The S2000 isn't in the same ballpark as that, but there is nothing wrong with saying that a car can be tricky to drive, so treat it with respect.
Joined: Mar 2016
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It is an important dynamic, no doubts about it. That said, drivers of different skill levels have remarked on the tendencies of the S2000.
If there are cars that you can put a driver of average skill in, and they are more likely to spin than other cars, it's not a leap to say that those cars are a bit tougher to drive. It's nothing to be ashamed of. The car isn't a death trap and it's not a bad car, but you just need to be careful with it.
If there are cars that you can put a driver of average skill in, and they are more likely to spin than other cars, it's not a leap to say that those cars are a bit tougher to drive. It's nothing to be ashamed of. The car isn't a death trap and it's not a bad car, but you just need to be careful with it.
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Hi Bubbels,
If you are already wondering about all this BEFORE pushing your S really hard, you are already 98% safe. You will drive with brains and will explore the car's behaviour gradually, and you have read already a lot of opinions here and elsewhere.
The problem with early S2K's was that few of their owners were ready for the car. They just thought they were buying a nice-looking roadster with quite a decent power. But the S was quite a different beast than a Miata (MX5 for us here in Europe), a Boxter or a Z3. Its power delivery, torque curve and handling was that of a serious driver's car, and people without much experience in handling oversteer with little torque were likely to get exhilarated by its addictive performance in VTEC-zone and eventually go beyond their skills limits and end up in a ditch.
The main issue was not so much oversteer in itself, but that the oversteer came very suddenly, without warning. From grip to sideways in a blink of an eye. This is what Honda corrected in later cars, that the oversteer would be more progressive, predictable and giving the driver more time for correcting the car's trajectory.
Don't be scared, you have a 05YM which even without VSA is already much more forgiving that the first model, and knowing all what you know now, you will surely enjoy it without having any scares. Just be careful in the wet, it's easy saying that you do not intend to drive the car in the wet, but in Belgium that's really unpredictable! (I lived there for 13 years).
If you are already wondering about all this BEFORE pushing your S really hard, you are already 98% safe. You will drive with brains and will explore the car's behaviour gradually, and you have read already a lot of opinions here and elsewhere.
The problem with early S2K's was that few of their owners were ready for the car. They just thought they were buying a nice-looking roadster with quite a decent power. But the S was quite a different beast than a Miata (MX5 for us here in Europe), a Boxter or a Z3. Its power delivery, torque curve and handling was that of a serious driver's car, and people without much experience in handling oversteer with little torque were likely to get exhilarated by its addictive performance in VTEC-zone and eventually go beyond their skills limits and end up in a ditch.
The main issue was not so much oversteer in itself, but that the oversteer came very suddenly, without warning. From grip to sideways in a blink of an eye. This is what Honda corrected in later cars, that the oversteer would be more progressive, predictable and giving the driver more time for correcting the car's trajectory.
Don't be scared, you have a 05YM which even without VSA is already much more forgiving that the first model, and knowing all what you know now, you will surely enjoy it without having any scares. Just be careful in the wet, it's easy saying that you do not intend to drive the car in the wet, but in Belgium that's really unpredictable! (I lived there for 13 years).
Joined: Jul 2013
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Originally Posted by jamesac83
I disagree, it's not any easier to spin.. as was pointed out by someone else, harder to recover when a spin/slide is initiated is more accurate. It's a sports car, it is not easier to spin than other sports cars. Compared to a fwd family sedan, or a minivan, sure.
However if you panic break mid corner, the S2k will do what it was designed to do, rotate!
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Originally Posted by Apex1.0
With regard to power over steer, there is no issue with the S2000 as long as the tires are not crap. My C6 was WAY more willing to break the rear loose under power. The s2k is just the opposite. It is very stable through a corner throttle on. However if you panic break mid corner, the S2k will do what it was designed to do, rotate!
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Joined: Feb 2016
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Hi Bubbels,
If you are already wondering about all this BEFORE pushing your S really hard, you are already 98% safe. You will drive with brains and will explore the car's behaviour gradually, and you have read already a lot of opinions here and elsewhere.
The problem with early S2K's was that few of their owners were ready for the car. They just thought they were buying a nice-looking roadster with quite a decent power. But the S was quite a different beast than a Miata (MX5 for us here in Europe), a Boxter or a Z3. Its power delivery, torque curve and handling was that of a serious driver's car, and people without much experience in handling oversteer with little torque were likely to get exhilarated by its addictive performance in VTEC-zone and eventually go beyond their skills limits and end up in a ditch.
The main issue was not so much oversteer in itself, but that the oversteer came very suddenly, without warning. From grip to sideways in a blink of an eye. This is what Honda corrected in later cars, that the oversteer would be more progressive, predictable and giving the driver more time for correcting the car's trajectory.
Don't be scared, you have a 05YM which even without VSA is already much more forgiving that the first model, and knowing all what you know now, you will surely enjoy it without having any scares. Just be careful in the wet, it's easy saying that you do not intend to drive the car in the wet, but in Belgium that's really unpredictable! (I lived there for 13 years).
If you are already wondering about all this BEFORE pushing your S really hard, you are already 98% safe. You will drive with brains and will explore the car's behaviour gradually, and you have read already a lot of opinions here and elsewhere.
The problem with early S2K's was that few of their owners were ready for the car. They just thought they were buying a nice-looking roadster with quite a decent power. But the S was quite a different beast than a Miata (MX5 for us here in Europe), a Boxter or a Z3. Its power delivery, torque curve and handling was that of a serious driver's car, and people without much experience in handling oversteer with little torque were likely to get exhilarated by its addictive performance in VTEC-zone and eventually go beyond their skills limits and end up in a ditch.
The main issue was not so much oversteer in itself, but that the oversteer came very suddenly, without warning. From grip to sideways in a blink of an eye. This is what Honda corrected in later cars, that the oversteer would be more progressive, predictable and giving the driver more time for correcting the car's trajectory.
Don't be scared, you have a 05YM which even without VSA is already much more forgiving that the first model, and knowing all what you know now, you will surely enjoy it without having any scares. Just be careful in the wet, it's easy saying that you do not intend to drive the car in the wet, but in Belgium that's really unpredictable! (I lived there for 13 years).
Guess I'll just take it easy then and learn how to properly drive the car before searching it's limits and ours. With the Type-R I could just punch the gas and take high speed corners without any consequences whatsoever. Guess we'll have to take it down a notch with the S2000. Rather keep the car and myself in one piece
I'm always extra careful in the rain no matter what car I drive, so this shouldn't be a problem. AD08R tires are probably not the best idea either on an S2000 then (in case we do have to drive in the rain)? Had them on the Type-R and they're really good for street tires, never failed me, even not in the rain. I'll search the site and see if I can find a tire thread and what is recommended for the S2000.
Joined: Apr 2011
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From: South East Queensland Oz.
God what a pile of rubbish. Most have not even defined what they are talking about.
Most I believe are talking about hooning around the suburbs, using the old slow in fast out rubbish around slow right angle corners, which has nothing to do with handling, & everything to do with the reflexes of the driver. Just a few are talking about a car near it's limit at moderate speeds above 60 MPH. This is where handling comes into play.
Then this fallacy of lift off oversteer. Firstly you are not talking about oversteer, but rear end breakaway, an entirely different animal. The S2000 does not have lift off oversteer. It does not even have lift off rear end breakaway, unless you have exceeded the limit of the tyres in the existing conditions. If you have it will breakaway very quickly, as will any other high grip car, regardless of whether you lift off, power on, or simply pray.
Someone mentioned the fact that even this is not too much of a problem IF YOU CAN DRIVE, something very few brought up on soulless front drive garbage can do, when they first get into an S2000. The problem is that it is very hard to get the S2000 back. Most inexperienced will apply far too much opposite lock, far too late, resulting in the thing snapping back, & spinning into the scenery in the opposite direction to the original tail loss. It is this ham fisted use of the steering wheel, developed in clumsy front drive shopping trolleys that get most into trouble in our cars.
I don't know what your auto x is, but if it is conducted at low speeds with little grip, all it will teach you is how to power slide around wet suburban streets. If that is where you drive, great. If you want to learn how to balance a car at speed, particularly an S2000, you need good road grip, & speeds above about 60 MPH. You need track days.
Oh & finally, the S2000 is not a particularly short wheelbase car. Most English sports cars are much shorter. It is only a very few inches shorter than Civics, Accords, & Toyota Corollas of the same vintage, & is about 6" longer than it's Mazda equivalent, which is praised for great handling. It is actually longer than some 5 seat sedans I have owned. None of them are claimed to have snap oversteer because of their wheelbase.
Don't be afraid of the S2000, yes it will bite the foolish, but no where near as quickly or seriously than most mussel cars I have driven.
Most I believe are talking about hooning around the suburbs, using the old slow in fast out rubbish around slow right angle corners, which has nothing to do with handling, & everything to do with the reflexes of the driver. Just a few are talking about a car near it's limit at moderate speeds above 60 MPH. This is where handling comes into play.
Then this fallacy of lift off oversteer. Firstly you are not talking about oversteer, but rear end breakaway, an entirely different animal. The S2000 does not have lift off oversteer. It does not even have lift off rear end breakaway, unless you have exceeded the limit of the tyres in the existing conditions. If you have it will breakaway very quickly, as will any other high grip car, regardless of whether you lift off, power on, or simply pray.
Someone mentioned the fact that even this is not too much of a problem IF YOU CAN DRIVE, something very few brought up on soulless front drive garbage can do, when they first get into an S2000. The problem is that it is very hard to get the S2000 back. Most inexperienced will apply far too much opposite lock, far too late, resulting in the thing snapping back, & spinning into the scenery in the opposite direction to the original tail loss. It is this ham fisted use of the steering wheel, developed in clumsy front drive shopping trolleys that get most into trouble in our cars.
I don't know what your auto x is, but if it is conducted at low speeds with little grip, all it will teach you is how to power slide around wet suburban streets. If that is where you drive, great. If you want to learn how to balance a car at speed, particularly an S2000, you need good road grip, & speeds above about 60 MPH. You need track days.
Oh & finally, the S2000 is not a particularly short wheelbase car. Most English sports cars are much shorter. It is only a very few inches shorter than Civics, Accords, & Toyota Corollas of the same vintage, & is about 6" longer than it's Mazda equivalent, which is praised for great handling. It is actually longer than some 5 seat sedans I have owned. None of them are claimed to have snap oversteer because of their wheelbase.
Don't be afraid of the S2000, yes it will bite the foolish, but no where near as quickly or seriously than most mussel cars I have driven.
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Originally Posted by jamesac83
I disagree, it's not any easier to spin.. as was pointed out by someone else, harder to recover when a spin/slide is initiated is more accurate. It's a sports car, it is not easier to spin than other sports cars. Compared to a fwd family sedan, or a minivan, sure.