dyno 04 s2000
I have noticed this as well. It's almost feels like you're pressing the gas before you start to release the clutch.
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From: Seattle
still haven't found the answer but in conclusion........the faster S is
the S with the better driver
Even though the 1/4 times are the same and some 04 driverssay they dyno more, in the end its whoever is the better driver!
the S with the better driver
Even though the 1/4 times are the same and some 04 driverssay they dyno more, in the end its whoever is the better driver!
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From: THEST1G
Originally Posted by Elistan,Aug 9 2004, 04:02 PM
Hehe. I own an '04, if that helps any.
Punch in the specifications for an '04 into a gearing calculator - or do it yourself. Find out the speed in mph at 8200rpm in 1st gear. (38.9mph) Then find out what engine speed corresponds to that in 2nd gear. (It's 5360rpm.) The relationship between 1st and 2nd has not changed in the '04 cars. They're still 3.133 and 2.045.
We're talking hard, immutable gears here. Those ratios are set in stone - er, steel. They are what they are. (Unless Honda is lying about the gear ratios? Unlikely.)
However, here's the reason why so many people say they never drop out of VTEC when shifting their '04 cars. (And I experience this too!) The new master clutch cylinder has a little delay valve in it. Its effect is to slow down the clutch engagement process. So what happens when you shift to 2nd at redline and release the clutch, it takes a little while before everything is fully engaged. During that slippage, there still is enough friction to accelerate the car - enough so that when everything is fully engaged, the car is going fast enough that the engine is above the VTEC transition point.
So try a really slow shift from redline in 1st gear. You see yourself end up below the VTEC point.
What's really worrying is doing a hard shift from 3rd to 4th at redline - the clutch delay lasts so long that I'm worried I'm causing more damage to the clutch than I'm saving from the drivetrain.
Punch in the specifications for an '04 into a gearing calculator - or do it yourself. Find out the speed in mph at 8200rpm in 1st gear. (38.9mph) Then find out what engine speed corresponds to that in 2nd gear. (It's 5360rpm.) The relationship between 1st and 2nd has not changed in the '04 cars. They're still 3.133 and 2.045.
We're talking hard, immutable gears here. Those ratios are set in stone - er, steel. They are what they are. (Unless Honda is lying about the gear ratios? Unlikely.)
However, here's the reason why so many people say they never drop out of VTEC when shifting their '04 cars. (And I experience this too!) The new master clutch cylinder has a little delay valve in it. Its effect is to slow down the clutch engagement process. So what happens when you shift to 2nd at redline and release the clutch, it takes a little while before everything is fully engaged. During that slippage, there still is enough friction to accelerate the car - enough so that when everything is fully engaged, the car is going fast enough that the engine is above the VTEC transition point.
So try a really slow shift from redline in 1st gear. You see yourself end up below the VTEC point.
What's really worrying is doing a hard shift from 3rd to 4th at redline - the clutch delay lasts so long that I'm worried I'm causing more damage to the clutch than I'm saving from the drivetrain.
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From: Longmont, CO
Originally Posted by WPS,Aug 9 2004, 09:39 PM
i read somewhere on the board that when you vtec it stays in vtec even though it falls below the vtec point as long as you are flooring it. not sure if that was true or not.
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From: Longmont, CO
Originally Posted by TunedS2000,Aug 9 2004, 09:57 PM
I read in car magazines that the gears are changed for the 04... I am comfused, please axplane...
First, both versions of the transmission have a secondary reduction gear in them. The '04 transmission is 4% shorter. So even though the actual 1st throuh 4th gears are identical for both transmissions, in practical terms they're 4% shorter.
The second aspect is the changes to the actual 5th and 6th gears. They're both taller than the '03 5th and 6th, but because of the secondary gear ratio change, 5th is actually still 1% shorter, while 6th ends up being 2% taller overall.
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From: Texas City
Originally Posted by Elistan,Aug 9 2004, 09:56 PM
There's two aspects to the changes.
First, both versions of the transmission have a secondary reduction gear in them. The '04 transmission is 4% shorter. So even though the actual 1st throuh 4th gears are identical for both transmissions, in practical terms they're 4% shorter.
The second aspect is the changes to the actual 5th and 6th gears. They're both taller than the '03 5th and 6th, but because of the secondary gear ratio change, 5th is actually still 1% shorter, while 6th ends up being 2% taller overall.
First, both versions of the transmission have a secondary reduction gear in them. The '04 transmission is 4% shorter. So even though the actual 1st throuh 4th gears are identical for both transmissions, in practical terms they're 4% shorter.
The second aspect is the changes to the actual 5th and 6th gears. They're both taller than the '03 5th and 6th, but because of the secondary gear ratio change, 5th is actually still 1% shorter, while 6th ends up being 2% taller overall.
That begs the question, "Will the secondary reduction gears in the pre MY04 transmission fit the MY04?"Drive Safe,
Steve R.
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From: St. Augustine
Originally Posted by Elistan,Aug 9 2004, 10:56 PM
There's two aspects to the changes.
First, both versions of the transmission have a secondary reduction gear in them. The '04 transmission is 4% shorter. So even though the actual 1st throuh 4th gears are identical for both transmissions, in practical terms they're 4% shorter.
The second aspect is the changes to the actual 5th and 6th gears. They're both taller than the '03 5th and 6th, but because of the secondary gear ratio change, 5th is actually still 1% shorter, while 6th ends up being 2% taller overall.
First, both versions of the transmission have a secondary reduction gear in them. The '04 transmission is 4% shorter. So even though the actual 1st throuh 4th gears are identical for both transmissions, in practical terms they're 4% shorter.
The second aspect is the changes to the actual 5th and 6th gears. They're both taller than the '03 5th and 6th, but because of the secondary gear ratio change, 5th is actually still 1% shorter, while 6th ends up being 2% taller overall.
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From: St. Augustine
Originally Posted by Intrepid175,Aug 9 2004, 11:14 PM
Hmmmmm That begs the question, "Will the secondary reduction gears in the pre MY04 transmission fit the MY04?"
Drive Safe,
Steve R.
That begs the question, "Will the secondary reduction gears in the pre MY04 transmission fit the MY04?"Drive Safe,
Steve R.
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From: Longmont, CO
1) Will pre-04 reduction gears fit? No idea, and given the cost of opening up the transmission, I have a feeling we'll never know.
2) The benefit of the '04 gearing? It's like the '00-'03 cars with 4.44 rear end gears. Increased torque at the wheels at the cost of top speed in a particular gear. It makes the car more drivable on the street. (But requires a LOT more shifting for typical autocross speeds.)
3) The benefits of an '04 tranny with '03 reduction gears? That's the ideal situation, IMO. The increased torque is negligable, but having the extra range in each gear would be wonderful. Plus that would make 6th gear - which isn't useful in performance driving anyway - that much taller, resulting in better highway fuel milage and reduced engine wear.
2) The benefit of the '04 gearing? It's like the '00-'03 cars with 4.44 rear end gears. Increased torque at the wheels at the cost of top speed in a particular gear. It makes the car more drivable on the street. (But requires a LOT more shifting for typical autocross speeds.)
3) The benefits of an '04 tranny with '03 reduction gears? That's the ideal situation, IMO. The increased torque is negligable, but having the extra range in each gear would be wonderful. Plus that would make 6th gear - which isn't useful in performance driving anyway - that much taller, resulting in better highway fuel milage and reduced engine wear.