I agree with cthree, have fun but don't be stupid. What's the point of that forum? Who did the stupidest trick in there S?

 

This is just dumb. I don't care what you call it but a forum devoted to comparing our car to other cars that you meet on the street and then race is a kill forum. I mean, are you gonna post "I saw a Supra Twin Turbo but we didn't race but I think I could have beat him"? No. You're gonna post how you went against him and did you beat him or didn't you. The argument that all boards have these types of forums is equally ludicrous. I thought we were proud of the fact that our board was more mature than other boards. One of the reasons that we are more mature is that we don't feel the manly urge to boast about our latest conquest. If someone does race or compete with another vehicle in a relatively safe manner I'm more than willing to see their post in this forum. What disturbs me is the people who race in populated areas putting innocent bystanders at risk and actually post that part of the story and expect us to overlook it. How'd this get back in this forum anyways? Last time I checked it was in Site Info as it should be. How does this relate to "Car Talk"?

 

Strike:
Did you read all of the posts? Did you happen get the points WHY I'm proposing a new FORUM?

What disturbs me is the people who race in populated areas putting innocent bystanders at risk and actually post that part of the story and expect us to overlook it.

Good reason for a new forum don't you think? Keep it out of your way. Since *CAR TALK* forum is for the BETTER people (right?). The reason that this thread is presented in *Car Talk* is to get feedback from members.
Strike: I'm sure you can point out many threads that should not belong in the *Car Talk* forum. Take it easy will you.



[Edited by YoungS2K on 04-26-2001 at 01:10 AM]

 

Given the fairly split concensus on the issue I think we'll just leave things the way they are for now. If it becomes an issue I will reexamine it.

 

segregation : so deeply rooted in american culture, that people demand to be segregated!

 

Im not sure how i feel about this whole idea yet...

But what i do know is that as im sure many other readers have felt, this issue creates more discord on the board than any other.

Even in this thread, which has remained pretty civilised so far, you can sense the opposing factions quietly seething under their breaths. I cant help feeling that all of this is related to the relative aggression and negativity surrounding illegal street racing.

We all know it happens, and sometimes we may even participate to some degree. But its true that this board and community works well as it is...why rock the boat?

There is no need for a separate forum for "kills". If a street racing story is posted in here, and people dont want to read it, then they dont have to...they simply click to the next post. Equally the people who get annoyed by such stories but read the posts nevertheless and subsequently flame it, will continue to do so even if the posts are on separate board.

The board, as it stands, works well. Cthree has done a great job. We are all, without exception,proud of this place.

Why change a winning forumla?

 

I have no issue with the decision either way, won't change my life a bit (I don't exactly post a lot of street encounters here - zero I think). In fact, the vast majority of my posts here tend to be of the technical nature, but I feel necessary to comment a bit further on this more esoteric subject.

Paris, I can sense some seething, but it mainly seems to come from those in opposition to the topic. I can understand why people are against street racing and why some take such an angry and vehement attitude towards it. I've never been to an "organized" street race and I abhor those who weave through traffic and call it racing (but when I was 16, all those years ago, I did it and was quite lucky IMO to not be killed - I'm still young enough to remember why I did it and to realize I'm not going to convince any 16 year olds differently today simply by telling them not to). I also spend a decent amount of time on the track in my vehicles (road course, auto-x and drag strip).

However....

I'm guilty of enjoying the maximum acceleration potential of my cars on public roads on a regular basis. Sometimes there is another car that trys to keep up, or vice-versa. There are even the rare occasions when I might be next to someone at a stoplight and choose to see who is quicker within reason (I don't condone doubling the speed limit on a residential road for example, but there are occasions when the acceleration is warranted and there just happens to be someone next to you). I avoid these the vast majority of the time because I don't care to lose my license, which can happen even if you don't violate the speed limit and are beleived to be racing.

Some here would condemn my actions and that behavior as dangerous, juvenile, etc. A smaller group might consider the same behavior quite tame and boring (those who choose to do 150 mph on bridges for example :-). I suspect, however, that I'm closer to the mean than many would care to admit.

But, irrespective of my behavior, these are the salient points to consider in regards to this topic (IMO).

1. Does creating a forum for such posts encourage that sort of behavior? I submit that it does not. The behavior has been happening since the dawn of mankind (Atook says to Lar,"I'll bet my round stone will beat your square stone down the hill!" Lar's stone hits Lana in head, tribe is devastated). I do believe such a forum encourages embellishment of said stories, but one might argue that the expressing of such a story in a public forum, in writing, might cause reflection by the writer upon his or her actions. I doubt it, but we are talking about semantics here.

2. Where do you draw the line? Many are highly critical of those who post about street encounters, and while they are entitled, I often wonder how their driving might rate. Do you speed? Do you signal every time you change lanes? Do you take turns are a rate of speed much higher than those around you? Do you drive fast on windy mountain roads with limited visibility? All of these things embody danger, sometimes in excess of what might be experienced in a stoplight drag. However, these actions are rarely vilified because (1) People usually don't mention them or (2) they don't have the same evil connotation as the words "street racing" (cell phone is a dirty word to me). Something about casting the first stone comes to mind - I suspect that 99% of the people here regularly do things in their cars that could be construed as clearly dangerous to any rational person, but they do them anyways. When I feel that I can safely say I haven't been stupid in the car, then I'll feel o.k. calling someone else's actions stupid.

3. The state of the forums and their future. Something to consider is that the S2K will be purchased by younger folks in the future. These people may want to post and read about things that those of us 30 and over may not want to hear about. However, both groups have much to offer. A simple thing like a "vs." forum might encourage continued member growth here and maintain the valuable flow of information. Or it might not. But judgemental attitudes, whether about other cars, other people or other people's behavior, will alienate people darn fast.

In the end, I would encourage those who feel strongly about "street racing" posts to lead by example and not lecture. If you're going to reply, be constructive, not insulting. Think back to when you were younger and how you responded to a lecture. It isn't your job to parent anyone, but if you want to comment, do it in a useful fashion, lest you foster the immature attitude so many of you are afraid of (flamefests). I'm also all for hearing about who's car is faster, but those who are going to find out, please be rational about it. There are times and places, even on public roads, where a little acceleration run is safe and there are times (the majority) when its clearly not. If you aren't sure of your situation, err on the side of caution. Don't feel the need to explain conditions and qualify your posts - chances are you already know if it was safe or not.

All IMHO of course.

UL

p.s. - The more I think about it, the more I condone "organized" street racing. I'd much rather have 50 kids who want to be racing take it to an out of the way place where they pose no risk to anyone but themselves. Yes, there are spectators, but they have a choice to be there as well. As long as there are a shortage of dragstrips, especially in SoCal, this is a far more palatable option.

 

ultimate lurker:

I read your well considered and intelligent post several times. I have to say that I agree with a lot of the points that you raise.

But lets not forget what the question is here...we were talking about whether or not its a good idea to have a separate kills forum. This is not at all the same question as whether or not we approve of street racing or not.

I think there's principally one main reason why I think the idea of a separate forum covering such as issue is a bad idea. As you elude to, I really do think that it might encourage the susceptible and less responsible amongst us to participate in such behaviour, and perhaps attract the wrong kind of attention to this board.

If you are someone who enjoys street racing, whether it be in either a minor or extreme form, and you get irritated by the others in this community who neither approve or wish to have a board concerning this subject, then ask yourself why it could be that they feel like this.
Is it because they are old and/or boring?
Is it because they want to spoil other people's fun?
Is it because they dont have the skills required to race?

Of course the answer to all of these questions is "no". The real reason I would imagine is that none of us want to be responsible for proposing a board that could potentially encourage people to participate in an illegal activity that can lead to death.

Death of themselves, or death of others.

Just because we dont have a board about it naturally doesnt mean that it wont occur, however by devoting a separate board to it does give the impression that this is somehow condoned by the community.
I am well aware of the fact that many things in life are not without risk...taking the seat behind the wheel is a risk. Taking the seat behind the wheel of a sports car is an even greater risk.
But there are limits, and in my mind, putting up a board on street-racing would be going to far. The site (and hence potentially the sponsors) could be seen to be condoning potentially lethal illegal activity. Just as we dont have a separate board for "Best Drunk-Driving Trips", then in my opinion neither should it exist for the street racing topic.

People may think im ranting, being a hypocrite, or just plain ignorant, but my intention is not to make these comments to anger or to alientate.
I just hate to think someone could come to harm because of an action of this community.

To return to one of Ultimate Lurker's opening comments "I have no issue with the decision either way, won't change my life a bit"...okay, so the decision wont change your life, but the point is that it might just (might, yes, but a might nevertheless) change someone else's.

 

Amen Lurker!!!

 

Well let me chime up here, I personally am not to excited about the forum idea. Not really my bag. Not because it is illegal, deadly, dangerous or anything else, but IMO nearly all the threads that are started are just flame bait. And I don't care to read about people's assumptions on something that may or may not really have happened.

But Paris and others who prefer to stick your head in the sand and pretend that this sort of driving doesn't happen on a daily basis by a large number of the members here is ludicrous. If you like your fragile world were no one dies, speeds or does anything illegal that is fine. But do not think that because a some users want to actually talk about what the are doing anyway that it is going to lead to more or less accidents or casualties.

No matter how hard you try, street racing happens. At least if nothing else there should be a safe place to discuss it.