Letting the Turbo Cat Out of the Bag...
05-10-2003, 11:02 AM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Houston
Posts: 5,765
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Letting the Turbo Cat Out of the Bag...
So, I thought I'd be sneaky, tricky, and sly. I worked out a deal with cjb80 for his turbo kit before my SC kit even sold. This was about 6-7 weeks ago. I kept it a secret, I didn't tell hardly anyone that I had purchased the turbo kit. Everyone thought that I needed to sell my SC kit to go turbo, and the kit was still for sale until today. I wanted to show up to the local weekly meet and see how long it took for people to realize that they didn't hear the SC whistle, or that my exhaust was different, or that my car sounded like it had a BOV. It was going to be great...but things didn't go as planned...like every other mod I do to my car. After weeks of trying to hold my secret together...I've decided to let the cat out of the bag...my car is turbo, and here's the horror story.
The deal that I worked with Chris included uninstallation of the SC and installation of the turbo kit. This meant that I had to drive 1,200 miles from Houston to S. Florida, but it was going to save me a minimum of $1,000 on installation costs, well, that was the logic at least.
So, me and Zerin drive from Houston to Fort Meyers Florida...roughly 1,250 miles. We arrive at Chris' house in time for dinner on Thursday night. After dinner we start to uninstall the SC. We got most of it off. So, we spend the next few days installing the turbo, intercooler, and the exhaust. Once all of that is done we do the electronics. Greddy e-01 is the boost controller, the Greddy eManage is my piggy-back. We've also got a turbo timer and O2 simulator to wire up. By Saturday night we had just the boost controller, turbo timer, and O2 simulator to wire up...then some subtle tuning. That would be completed on Sunday.
On Sunday, our last available day for working on the car, we are setting the boost controller while driving / testing when Chris thinks he hears detonation. He's somewhat nervous, but we can't figure out how we could be detonating at 5K RPM, on 6 pounds of boost, and with A/F ratios of less than 10:1 (he had a wideband O2 hooked up to the car). I'm somewhat nervous when he says "detonation", so I suggest that we just grab some lunch and go back to the house to discuss the potential problem, and look at the car. So we head to Wendy's and get some food. One problem we had already ran into was that my car is about 2.5" lower than stock. His exhaust left about 3-4 inches between the exhaust and the body. At the rear, where it goes to the two canisters I had about 1.5" of space between the exhaust and the ground...not gonna cut it. As we drive back we here this loud "patoing!" sound. Both of us have no idea what it was...but it sounded like something hitting the exhaust. It happens again, "patoing!". It's VERY loud, but there is NOTHING in the road. We hear the sound every couple of minutes, but we can't find a single thing that could be causing it.
After lunch we spent a few hours double checking everything to make sure all the piping was secure. We can't find any cause for a metal on metal sound. I take Zerin on a ride to show him the sound, as well as to show him how we need to take a lot of fuel out for the car to have any usable power. It was so rich that the car was much slower than my SC car. As I'm out with Zerin, I realize that I'm able to reproduce the noise by hitting the throttle at about 3K, and then letting off after it goes up 500 RPM or so. It's a loud "bang!". Over and over I can repeat it, and Zerin, with his head sticking out of the window, is pretty sure it's coming from the front of the car. We take the car back and Chris does some more checking. I take the car out again, and before I even get down the street it bangs. I turn right around. Everyone is frustrated at this point.
Suddenly we get smart, and attempt to rev the car up in the garage, to see if it can be reproduced without driving. I rev up and as the RPMs come down to 3K "BANG!". We do it a handful of times as Chris and Zerin listen to where it's coming from. As far as they can tell it sounds like it's inside the bottom of the motor...as the sound comes from the oil pan. It sounds like you're taking a hammer and hitting the oil pan. Chris calls Mike Simon to see if he has an idea of what could be causing the sound. Mike bets that it's a spun rod bearing. Now we're really getting depressed. We pretty much write off the motor, accept that it has some damage, and that we simply can't finish tuning the car. We had a few things that needed to be done, like raising the rear shocks one perch to get an extra 0.5 inches that will only slightly help. We needed to work on the front bumper, as the hood wasn't closing right, and the coastal metals grill needed to be reinstalled since we had to cut out some of the stock grill to get the IC to fit. Lastly, the O2 simulator needed to be installed.
So, we do all that Sunday night...and I'm totally depressed the whole time. None of us can figure out how this happened. We just accept that I'm going to have to get the car home before anything can be done. The car seemed drivable. I knew that driving it could cause some more damage, but I had already figured that if we caused damage already I'd just get a built motor...so I didn't really care if we hurt the motor trying to drive home. So that's the plan. We all goto bed late Sunday with expectations of driving back the next morning.
We get up Monday morning and start to leave at 9 AM. Zerin backs the car out of the garage, and it dies 3 times. I think he's just having trouble with my clutch...so I give it a try. Anytime I rev the car up it dies. If I give it gas slowly, then let the clutch out the load kills the motor. I'm even more depressed than I was before. I try and try and try...then I just accept that we're scewed. So, I called Chris who was already at work, told him what was up, then told him I'd call him back. Zerin makes some phone calls and finds the cheapest truck / trailer rental to be $650. I immediately say "no". So, after we tried to find some cheaper options we decide that we have no choice, and accept the price. I call Chris and he leaves work to take me to get the truck. You can only imagine my mood.
This was supposed to be a straight up trade. Selling the supercharger, plus my unused intercooler, upgraded pulley and belt, and my exhaust would make the upgrade to turbo just about a straight up trade. Now I've got a blowm motor and a $650 rental. We go get the truck, and they guy informs us "You'll have to come back after 3 PM to get the trailer...it has a bad tire that needs to be replaced." It just keeps getting worse. I wanted to go home so bad. I had a headache that whole day, and had been sick to my stomach. I was in a horrible nightmare. I take the truck back to Chris' house, and Chris goes back to work. Zerin and I napped, got lunch, then drove to get the trailer. We nap some more and wait for Chris to get home from work. By the time he's home, Zerin and I are so ready to leave that we decide to leave when the car's on the trailer...even though we're way off schedule. With some major high rev'ing I'm able to get the car onto the trailer. We strap it down say our goodbyes and get the hell out of there. We enjoyed the weekend hanging out with Chris, and all of us laughed a lot, but the last 24 hours had just brought all of us down to a low...we wanted to get home.
We drove until 1:30 AM that night, and were only 3 hours short of our initially planned stopping point (Pensacola). We drive 13 hours the next day and get home around 10 PM. During this trip I'm getting 10 MPG. I spent over $200 in gas just on the way home.
The next day I drop the car off at the dealership. One of the first things they tell me is that Marcelo, the mechanic that has done ALL of the work on my car, is no longer working there. CAN IT GET ANY WORSE!? They tell me that they can look at the motor, but that if it has anything to do with the turbo they won't touch that. I don't have a choice so I leave the car there.
They do their inspection, use a stethescope, etc, and discover that the sound is coming from the turbo, not the motor. The intake impeller is appearantly slamming against the housing. It even turns out that the impeller is making a groove in the housing. So, I'm somewhat releived...but confused as to how the turbo could be bad. We had inspected the turbo before installation and it looked perfect.
After talking with Chris, I find out that the turbo still is in it's 1 year warranty period. So, we decide to send it to Turbonetics. Although I helped with the install, and know what to do to uninstall it, I decide to get help from our local turbo expert. He agrees to come take the turbo off on Monday. But, he doesn't show up. He says he'll do it on Tuesday. But, he doesn't show up. I don't hear from him on Wednesday, but he definitely didn't show up. I decided I couldn't wait any longer. I bought the tools I was lacking (a short set of wrenches, a good jack and some jack stands). I went to the dealership and removed the turbo and shipped it to Turbonetics.
I called Turbonetics to let them know that a turbo was on the way to them. They said they would call me once it arrived. I ended up calling them on the Tuesday after the Monday that it was gauranteed to be delivered. They informed me that the turbo was already being torn down for inspection. They would call me when they had a diagnosis. So, I get a call two days later from Turbonetics. They explain that the inside of the turbo is completely cooked. The turbo was introduced to mass amounts of heat. Everything inside is messed up to some extent. They explain that it will be covered under warranty, and recommend a water-cooled housing. So, the turbo is being rebuilt, but the compressor wheel is on back order and there is no ETA for that. Once they know an ETA I'm going to get a call.
Turbonetics did not speculate as to what could have caused the turbo to see so much heat. The only thing that Chis and I can come up with is if somehow the turbo didn't get oil from the oil feed line. Maybe the line is blocked. We realize that this is definitely something that has to be checked when the new turbo goes in. Disconnecting the oil return line, placing a cup under the turbo, and starting the car will tell us if the turbo is getting oil. So, that's the plan for now.
Yes, it sucks that so many things have gone wrong with my car, but I'm not giving up this easily. Everything is repairable, and things are going to go wrong. I don't blame this on anyone, it was just an unfortunate event that many of us will learn from. Luckily the turbo is under warranty.
The deal that I worked with Chris included uninstallation of the SC and installation of the turbo kit. This meant that I had to drive 1,200 miles from Houston to S. Florida, but it was going to save me a minimum of $1,000 on installation costs, well, that was the logic at least.
So, me and Zerin drive from Houston to Fort Meyers Florida...roughly 1,250 miles. We arrive at Chris' house in time for dinner on Thursday night. After dinner we start to uninstall the SC. We got most of it off. So, we spend the next few days installing the turbo, intercooler, and the exhaust. Once all of that is done we do the electronics. Greddy e-01 is the boost controller, the Greddy eManage is my piggy-back. We've also got a turbo timer and O2 simulator to wire up. By Saturday night we had just the boost controller, turbo timer, and O2 simulator to wire up...then some subtle tuning. That would be completed on Sunday.
On Sunday, our last available day for working on the car, we are setting the boost controller while driving / testing when Chris thinks he hears detonation. He's somewhat nervous, but we can't figure out how we could be detonating at 5K RPM, on 6 pounds of boost, and with A/F ratios of less than 10:1 (he had a wideband O2 hooked up to the car). I'm somewhat nervous when he says "detonation", so I suggest that we just grab some lunch and go back to the house to discuss the potential problem, and look at the car. So we head to Wendy's and get some food. One problem we had already ran into was that my car is about 2.5" lower than stock. His exhaust left about 3-4 inches between the exhaust and the body. At the rear, where it goes to the two canisters I had about 1.5" of space between the exhaust and the ground...not gonna cut it. As we drive back we here this loud "patoing!" sound. Both of us have no idea what it was...but it sounded like something hitting the exhaust. It happens again, "patoing!". It's VERY loud, but there is NOTHING in the road. We hear the sound every couple of minutes, but we can't find a single thing that could be causing it.
After lunch we spent a few hours double checking everything to make sure all the piping was secure. We can't find any cause for a metal on metal sound. I take Zerin on a ride to show him the sound, as well as to show him how we need to take a lot of fuel out for the car to have any usable power. It was so rich that the car was much slower than my SC car. As I'm out with Zerin, I realize that I'm able to reproduce the noise by hitting the throttle at about 3K, and then letting off after it goes up 500 RPM or so. It's a loud "bang!". Over and over I can repeat it, and Zerin, with his head sticking out of the window, is pretty sure it's coming from the front of the car. We take the car back and Chris does some more checking. I take the car out again, and before I even get down the street it bangs. I turn right around. Everyone is frustrated at this point.
Suddenly we get smart, and attempt to rev the car up in the garage, to see if it can be reproduced without driving. I rev up and as the RPMs come down to 3K "BANG!". We do it a handful of times as Chris and Zerin listen to where it's coming from. As far as they can tell it sounds like it's inside the bottom of the motor...as the sound comes from the oil pan. It sounds like you're taking a hammer and hitting the oil pan. Chris calls Mike Simon to see if he has an idea of what could be causing the sound. Mike bets that it's a spun rod bearing. Now we're really getting depressed. We pretty much write off the motor, accept that it has some damage, and that we simply can't finish tuning the car. We had a few things that needed to be done, like raising the rear shocks one perch to get an extra 0.5 inches that will only slightly help. We needed to work on the front bumper, as the hood wasn't closing right, and the coastal metals grill needed to be reinstalled since we had to cut out some of the stock grill to get the IC to fit. Lastly, the O2 simulator needed to be installed.
So, we do all that Sunday night...and I'm totally depressed the whole time. None of us can figure out how this happened. We just accept that I'm going to have to get the car home before anything can be done. The car seemed drivable. I knew that driving it could cause some more damage, but I had already figured that if we caused damage already I'd just get a built motor...so I didn't really care if we hurt the motor trying to drive home. So that's the plan. We all goto bed late Sunday with expectations of driving back the next morning.
We get up Monday morning and start to leave at 9 AM. Zerin backs the car out of the garage, and it dies 3 times. I think he's just having trouble with my clutch...so I give it a try. Anytime I rev the car up it dies. If I give it gas slowly, then let the clutch out the load kills the motor. I'm even more depressed than I was before. I try and try and try...then I just accept that we're scewed. So, I called Chris who was already at work, told him what was up, then told him I'd call him back. Zerin makes some phone calls and finds the cheapest truck / trailer rental to be $650. I immediately say "no". So, after we tried to find some cheaper options we decide that we have no choice, and accept the price. I call Chris and he leaves work to take me to get the truck. You can only imagine my mood.
This was supposed to be a straight up trade. Selling the supercharger, plus my unused intercooler, upgraded pulley and belt, and my exhaust would make the upgrade to turbo just about a straight up trade. Now I've got a blowm motor and a $650 rental. We go get the truck, and they guy informs us "You'll have to come back after 3 PM to get the trailer...it has a bad tire that needs to be replaced." It just keeps getting worse. I wanted to go home so bad. I had a headache that whole day, and had been sick to my stomach. I was in a horrible nightmare. I take the truck back to Chris' house, and Chris goes back to work. Zerin and I napped, got lunch, then drove to get the trailer. We nap some more and wait for Chris to get home from work. By the time he's home, Zerin and I are so ready to leave that we decide to leave when the car's on the trailer...even though we're way off schedule. With some major high rev'ing I'm able to get the car onto the trailer. We strap it down say our goodbyes and get the hell out of there. We enjoyed the weekend hanging out with Chris, and all of us laughed a lot, but the last 24 hours had just brought all of us down to a low...we wanted to get home.
We drove until 1:30 AM that night, and were only 3 hours short of our initially planned stopping point (Pensacola). We drive 13 hours the next day and get home around 10 PM. During this trip I'm getting 10 MPG. I spent over $200 in gas just on the way home.
The next day I drop the car off at the dealership. One of the first things they tell me is that Marcelo, the mechanic that has done ALL of the work on my car, is no longer working there. CAN IT GET ANY WORSE!? They tell me that they can look at the motor, but that if it has anything to do with the turbo they won't touch that. I don't have a choice so I leave the car there.
They do their inspection, use a stethescope, etc, and discover that the sound is coming from the turbo, not the motor. The intake impeller is appearantly slamming against the housing. It even turns out that the impeller is making a groove in the housing. So, I'm somewhat releived...but confused as to how the turbo could be bad. We had inspected the turbo before installation and it looked perfect.
After talking with Chris, I find out that the turbo still is in it's 1 year warranty period. So, we decide to send it to Turbonetics. Although I helped with the install, and know what to do to uninstall it, I decide to get help from our local turbo expert. He agrees to come take the turbo off on Monday. But, he doesn't show up. He says he'll do it on Tuesday. But, he doesn't show up. I don't hear from him on Wednesday, but he definitely didn't show up. I decided I couldn't wait any longer. I bought the tools I was lacking (a short set of wrenches, a good jack and some jack stands). I went to the dealership and removed the turbo and shipped it to Turbonetics.
I called Turbonetics to let them know that a turbo was on the way to them. They said they would call me once it arrived. I ended up calling them on the Tuesday after the Monday that it was gauranteed to be delivered. They informed me that the turbo was already being torn down for inspection. They would call me when they had a diagnosis. So, I get a call two days later from Turbonetics. They explain that the inside of the turbo is completely cooked. The turbo was introduced to mass amounts of heat. Everything inside is messed up to some extent. They explain that it will be covered under warranty, and recommend a water-cooled housing. So, the turbo is being rebuilt, but the compressor wheel is on back order and there is no ETA for that. Once they know an ETA I'm going to get a call.
Turbonetics did not speculate as to what could have caused the turbo to see so much heat. The only thing that Chis and I can come up with is if somehow the turbo didn't get oil from the oil feed line. Maybe the line is blocked. We realize that this is definitely something that has to be checked when the new turbo goes in. Disconnecting the oil return line, placing a cup under the turbo, and starting the car will tell us if the turbo is getting oil. So, that's the plan for now.
Yes, it sucks that so many things have gone wrong with my car, but I'm not giving up this easily. Everything is repairable, and things are going to go wrong. I don't blame this on anyone, it was just an unfortunate event that many of us will learn from. Luckily the turbo is under warranty.
05-10-2003, 11:12 AM
#2
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Houston
Posts: 2,176
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wow Wes.
Sorry to hear about all the troubles.
Once your car is fixed and ready to go, I am sure we will see it out on the streets here in Houston again.
Good luck.
Sorry to hear about all the troubles.
Once your car is fixed and ready to go, I am sure we will see it out on the streets here in Houston again.
Good luck.
good luck Wes!
05-10-2003, 11:41 AM
#5
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Spring
Posts: 5,997
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There were whispers about your car at the last Sat. gtg but no one would say exactly what the bit secret was. Course, then, all that excitement hadn't happened yet. Hope all is good from here on out! Can't wait to hear/see the finished product!!
Trending Topics
05-10-2003, 12:01 PM
#8
Registered User
Join Date: May 2003
Location: London
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The good side to it is that you learn from experience,
the bad thing is that feeling you get when stuff goes wrong with your car. that F@$%ed up feeling that eats your stomach away. i used to own an rx7 that broke down on me, feel this, on the way home from the mechanics, who had just had my engne rebuilt.
Its a car, it can always be fixed, and it seems that you could have been alot worse off. good luck with it
the bad thing is that feeling you get when stuff goes wrong with your car. that F@$%ed up feeling that eats your stomach away. i used to own an rx7 that broke down on me, feel this, on the way home from the mechanics, who had just had my engne rebuilt.
Its a car, it can always be fixed, and it seems that you could have been alot worse off. good luck with it
05-10-2003, 12:21 PM
#9
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Houston
Posts: 5,765
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by TS2000
... i used to own an rx7 that broke down on me, feel this, on the way home from the mechanics, who had just had my engne rebuilt...
... i used to own an rx7 that broke down on me, feel this, on the way home from the mechanics, who had just had my engne rebuilt...
05-10-2003, 12:29 PM
#10
Registered User
Thanks for the detalied story Wes. I'm sorry to hear about your troubles though. I'm glad you're being optimistic about the whole thing. Think of it this way...perhaps the experience you are getting in this area now will allow you to make some money with it in the future so you can accrue the expenses you had on the trip. I'll be very eager to see your car run once everything is complete.