toofast4u

grey that's true...I have no idea how the car was maintained...but from the looks of the exterior and interior everything looked good...there were no dings on the car no rips in the interior, so I was assuming the engine was kept well.

Barry...AHM sent out a rep and they said it was oil starvation and that's that...they wanted 15000 to put a brand new engine, money I don't have so I had to spend 4500 elsewhere to get the motor rebuilt. and it's cool to add me to the list. I may need that list actually to show Honda and let them know that others have similar problems and it was fixed.

I think poway honda, the first place I took it to, saw that I was a kid, and claimed it to be an over rev problem. And then the broken valve was what they said to get me out of there. The second place Pacific Honda, where the adult took the car, didn't mention anything about over rev. So I'm thinking of doing a discrimination lawsuit against Honda, or get my money for incompetense of mechanics at said dealerships. My thinking is, if I take it to two different places and each gives me a different diagnosis, either someone is dumb or someone is lying. Either way I think I have a case, besides the fact honda states it was an oil starvation problem.

I have plans to call all local radio and tv stations and tell them about the situation. I then plan to call investigator tv shows like 20/20 and dateline. Then letting the dealerships and the higher ups know that I am mailing this letter to all tv stations unless something can be done to compensate me. All this in hopes of presenting such bad business for the dealerships they will regret not fixing the car for me for free...cuz if I can turn away 20 people from going there...that's 20 cars they don't sell...and there's is no better form of advertising than word of mouth.

I'll post pictures tonight.

Thanks

su701

i am driving a hyundia rental for now because HONDA won't do anything without being sued. my s2000 was only 3 months old and 4kmiles. let me know if i can help you.

toofast4u

su...sent you a pm...

no offense to anyone here. But in my opinion honda should stick to their civic and accord engines. They are starting with this high hp engine that can only achieve it at high rpms, then they wonder why they're engines go bad. Not to flame anyone, and please no one take it the wrong way, but this is my opinion. I've driven bmw's for a while now, I actually own another 325is. Now that car is a 6 cyl, and with mods it puts out about 160 to the rw. My car is a 1993 and I have had very little problems with it. And if you search Bmw boards, www.bimmerforums.com you will find few people, if any, who bought brand new cars and had they're engines die. Is it just me or is Honda producing a bad product. I think they should take this back to research and come out with a s3000 with a nice 6cyl engine in it, that max. rpms at 6500. Just my 2 cents. I still like the styling of the car, and handling aint bad, but the engine is the weak point of this car, and it's suppose to be Honda's race engine.

00S2K01S4

I hope you get things resolved. But just want to say that you shouldn't base your opinion on this engine on engine failure posts. This would give you a sense that most of these engines fail (much like turbo failure posts in the S4 forum on Audiworld). Just remember there are a lot of us who have no problems with our engines. I take my car out to the autox regularly ever since I bought it. It has ran flawlessly and probably consumed less than a quart of oil since new. However, it is only driven on weekends/autox so probably daily city driving would cause it to burn more oil. I think this engine is one of the best Honda has produced. I have owned a 94 Prelude VTEC (nice engine) and a 90 Accord EX (good engine). I never feel that this engine will give up for me. Also, check out http://members.roadfly.org/jason/m3engines.htm for people experiencing blown M3 engines. This is a known problem for BMW and M3 owners.

honda606

Actually I have read quite a few stories there, and in other places, these past 6 months on many people experiencing engine failure with their new E46 M3.

You can't generalize and assume that all F20C's are going to have problems just because yours happens to. You say you just bought the car, but it has 20,000 miles on it. I assume that means you purchased it used. There is no telling how your car was treated before you acquired it. Did you know the person you purchased it from?

toofast4u

well it seems I should of done more research before I made such a generalization...I'm sorry...but I am home now and I will add the pics...

here is a picture of the head...it shows that the top end seems normal


Here is a picture of of the number 4 cyl. That shows the sides scratched. I included the arrows to show where


Here is another picture of the cyl 4


The last pic is a picture showing the first dealer was smoking crack...the exhaust and intake valves look fine to me.



I have a couple more but nothing too reavealing...but I'm going to get more soon...I'm going to call a lawyer tommorrow and get the ball rolling on this...I'm prob going to go for a discrimination suit. I'll get back to you guys tommorrow, to see if anyone else in california wants to add to the list and get something big...

Hooman

toofast4u

well...if this is a flaw in the f20c engine design, why wouldn't Honda fix it. If I take it to a mechanic, or mechanics, would they be able to recognize it as an engine flaw? I already called a lawyer, and he said that with the evidence I have (thanks Barry for documenting all the different cases) I definetly have a case. He says the discrimination suit is a little far fetched, but there is evidence to support it. He says go for the 4500 then worry about the big bucks...I'll keep you posted.

honda606

Then worry about the big bucks? I love the leech theory most people live by these days looking for any possible way to screw someone out of money that they don't deserve. Why should you receive more than a new engine and your $4500 back? You weren't abused here, you were just uninformed. Possibly even the dealership you took it to was uninformed about the #4 cylinder problem which has affected some 00-01 models.

Get yourself a new engine and definitely get the $4500 reimbursed but leave it at that. Don't be like the rest of the greedy people in this world trying to find ways to sue someone else so they can be supported without having to work. This kind of legal system abuse makes it harder for people with real cases to get heard.

toofast4u

no no...don't get me wrong...it's not for the money (well yea it is) but it's more as a respect kinda thing...when they see they have a problem with a car they should take action and fix it. And that goes for ALL car makers...BMW had a faulty water pump from 92-98 that caused engine overheating, Ford had problems with there torque convertors from their automatic cars, and there are others out there. Sometimes companies need to learn the hard way that we the consumers wont stand up to their crap. They can't take advantage of us. We do them a favor by buying their cars, and keep making payments, now they should provide us with a working car, even if it is isolated cases. So Honda606, I'm not like the smokers who sue tobacco companies for millions...I'm talking about some bad advertisment. It's like the old saying goes, the squeaky wheel gets the oil...if we stay quiet about this then honda will do nothing cuz they know they've found a bunch of suckers...But if all of a sudden 10-15 100,000 dollar lawsuits are filed and numerous others for repairs, Honda will take action and keep the S2000 from major flaws in the future.

BTW: if someone hasn't been hurt as of now, how do we know this problem wont kill people in the future. If one car up and stops in the middle of the freeway going 65 mph and someone rear ends him and he dies, is it not Honda's fault. If you are driving the car on some twisities and get stranded and you get hurt by a drunk driver, that's Honda's fault. I know my examples are far fetched but it could happen, and if it does then Honda will have a bigger problem in there hands.

Uncle Fester

I'm sorry toofast4u, but your case sounds like a case of oil starvation. You said yourself that you were 1.5 quarts low, which is quite a bit, especially when you consider during operation, a lot of oil is not sitting in the oil pan waiting to be picked up by the oil pickup. Now take a corner in the car and kaboom. Were you driving her hard? Some people can't even fathom the intensity and stress in an engine spinning at 7500 RPM, much less 8K and 9K. In those operating conditions, life essential items such as oil better be damn ready to do their job, or you will have cases like this.

Another mistake was assuming that the engine was treated as well as the exterior and interior...

But I want to wish you good luck, and don't break her heart again like the first time.