numb steering MY08
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From: Canada
Originally Posted by basscase,May 1 2008, 03:18 PM
I had an AP1 for five years, and now an AP2. S2K steering feel is definitely on the numb side. At least numb compared to a 911 or an M3.
If you accidentally ran over a small mammal with a 911, you would know instantly whether it was male or female, how old it was and what it had for breakfast, just by the steering feel.
If you accidentally ran over a small mammal with a 911, you would know instantly whether it was male or female, how old it was and what it had for breakfast, just by the steering feel.
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Joined: Apr 2001
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From: La Habra
My AP1 and AP2 were both numb. I'm sure it is the EPS (electric power steering system (its response and connection to the lower shaft, how road forces are fed back up). What do we I mean by "numb?" I mean a lack of tactile feedback as to what the front tires are doing at or near the limits or even at what angle they are pointed. I think what people notice, AP1 vs AP2, is how the later AP2 years have the OEM suspension dialed in for (safer) understeer. Does make it feel less a bit less lively.
This numbness doesn't make the car handle better or worse. Rather it forces the driver to pay more attention or else miss more subtle feedback from the wheel. It has nothing to do with the capability of the car. Handling is a combination of how the car behaves in transitions (slalom), steady-state (traction circle), at high-speed (e.g. lift or downforce), and under braking/acceleration.
My C5 Z06 had better handling than either of my S2K's but it was, if anything, even MORE numb at the wheel. It made up for it by having such a smooth throttle that would let you move from under to over steer at whim. The handling limits were higher but you had to trust it as much or more than feel it.
This numbness doesn't make the car handle better or worse. Rather it forces the driver to pay more attention or else miss more subtle feedback from the wheel. It has nothing to do with the capability of the car. Handling is a combination of how the car behaves in transitions (slalom), steady-state (traction circle), at high-speed (e.g. lift or downforce), and under braking/acceleration.
My C5 Z06 had better handling than either of my S2K's but it was, if anything, even MORE numb at the wheel. It made up for it by having such a smooth throttle that would let you move from under to over steer at whim. The handling limits were higher but you had to trust it as much or more than feel it.
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Originally Posted by Penforhire,Sep 14 2009, 01:22 PM
My C5 Z06 had better handling than either of my S2K's but it was, if anything, even MORE numb at the wheel. It made up for it by having such a smooth throttle that would let you move from under to over steer at whim. The handling limits were higher but you had to trust it as much or more than feel it.
However, I've also owned a lotus elise between the c5 and my current s2k, and I've driven my friend's 91 NSX several times. The steering feedback on these can not be compared to the S2k, AP2 or AP1.
Unless the wheel physically squirms in my hand over bumps, and actually *changes* it's resistance and weight in relation to the load on the front wheels, the wheel is DEAD and NUMB. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. I can't count how many people tell me "well I think the S2000 steering is fine", but readily admit they have yet to drive a manual rack, or even a high end power steering rack like a porsche 911 or an 08+ corvette.
The lack of feeling in the wheel is the worst achilles heel of the S2000. It's like having sex with a corpse.
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Just to toss my .02 in... I also came from a Miata and also complain quite vocally about the lack of steering feel in the S2K. The Miata is a very organic and communicative car with some of the best feel you can get in anything close to that price range (I had the mazdaspeed, it was a great little car). The S2K certainly compromises on that front... however...
After just getting back from the track, I've learned a few things about the car - The car does talk to you, but it's definately more damped and more info comes from the seat than the wheel - something I'm still not used to.
I find you really have to trust the S2000, and the limits are indeed quite high. The steering is really precise and slides are pretty easily controllable. I just wish I didn't have to rely that much on trust
After just getting back from the track, I've learned a few things about the car - The car does talk to you, but it's definately more damped and more info comes from the seat than the wheel - something I'm still not used to.
I find you really have to trust the S2000, and the limits are indeed quite high. The steering is really precise and slides are pretty easily controllable. I just wish I didn't have to rely that much on trust
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What is numb?
1. If you want to feel the road surface while going straight ahead, then yes, it is numb.
2. If you want steering feedback when turning the car (in an exciting situation that is, when you need it, not while parking) then S2000 steering is certainly not numb.
This is exactly what I want from steering in a car. I don't want unnecessary distraction from steering while parking or going straight ahead. I just want perfect on center feel, which is exactly what you get in an S2000.
But when you're carving curves, the steering comes alive and tells you all you need to know. Perfect...
Also, I find the steering effortless in S2K by sports car standards. Even 3-series steering is way to stiff for daily driving (to me)...
1. If you want to feel the road surface while going straight ahead, then yes, it is numb.
2. If you want steering feedback when turning the car (in an exciting situation that is, when you need it, not while parking) then S2000 steering is certainly not numb.
This is exactly what I want from steering in a car. I don't want unnecessary distraction from steering while parking or going straight ahead. I just want perfect on center feel, which is exactly what you get in an S2000.
But when you're carving curves, the steering comes alive and tells you all you need to know. Perfect...
Also, I find the steering effortless in S2K by sports car standards. Even 3-series steering is way to stiff for daily driving (to me)...
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From: Pasadena, SOCAL
it's way lacking in feedback for sure, the same goes for both "gen" reqardless of ratio
I am not sure if there's any cheap/easy cure for that, the only thing i see people doing is retrofitting manual rack.
hopefully the newer generation of eps will take that into consideration
I am not sure if there's any cheap/easy cure for that, the only thing i see people doing is retrofitting manual rack.
hopefully the newer generation of eps will take that into consideration
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