Observation on 2.2L vs 2.0L
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2002
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From: Bay Area
[QUOTE]Originally posted by SSE
I am not so sure Honda will sell more cars this way, as I believe they will lose some customers at the same time.
Just look at how they have been marketing the 'old' S2K - As an uncompromised high tech car with close relation to racing and an exceptional, high revving engine with the world's highest specific output etc etc.
They now have to find something else, which i.a. will put the car even closer to e.g. a Z4, HOWEVER, whithout i.a. the same refinement in interior design and without the extra badge status the customers in this segment might be looking for.
I am not so sure Honda will sell more cars this way, as I believe they will lose some customers at the same time.
Just look at how they have been marketing the 'old' S2K - As an uncompromised high tech car with close relation to racing and an exceptional, high revving engine with the world's highest specific output etc etc.
They now have to find something else, which i.a. will put the car even closer to e.g. a Z4, HOWEVER, whithout i.a. the same refinement in interior design and without the extra badge status the customers in this segment might be looking for.
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 781
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From: Bay Area
I see your point now, and there may be a few people who think this way, but I believe the number will be quite a bit smaller than those who think the new car is an improvement.
You're comparing the new S2000 to a car that isn't even for sale in this market now. So the folks who want a high tech, uncompromising, high revving, high specific output roadster are now gonna buy what? A Z roadster? A Z4 2.5i? I have to admit I didn't even think of the 2.5l Z4 until you mentioned the price comparison, and I can't imagine anyone who cares so much about specific output will either. The only car they can look to is the Elise, but an '04 that was more pure than the Elise was not going to happen.
I guess you can argue that more people will buy a used S2k, but all the predictions of people lining up to pick up the last remaining '03s didn't really happen. If you look at the sentiment on this forum, which represents the most hardcore of s2k enthusiasts, opinions of the '04 started out with "the sky is falling" pessimism, but with each passing day and new photo, magazine review etc., more people are starting to like it. Not everyone mind you, and I'll agree with you that the changes may not snag some repeat customers who already love the old car. But you know, I'm sure Honda had a budget for this refresh, and I think they did a pretty good job with it.
I certainly wasn't commenting on your dick size, you were just delivering your view of how the market will react. I just don't think the 2 attributes you mentioned will make a buy/no buy decision for most people when factored in with all the other changes. So we agree to disagree, nothing personal.
Oh and by the way, it's HUGE
Peter
You're comparing the new S2000 to a car that isn't even for sale in this market now. So the folks who want a high tech, uncompromising, high revving, high specific output roadster are now gonna buy what? A Z roadster? A Z4 2.5i? I have to admit I didn't even think of the 2.5l Z4 until you mentioned the price comparison, and I can't imagine anyone who cares so much about specific output will either. The only car they can look to is the Elise, but an '04 that was more pure than the Elise was not going to happen.
I guess you can argue that more people will buy a used S2k, but all the predictions of people lining up to pick up the last remaining '03s didn't really happen. If you look at the sentiment on this forum, which represents the most hardcore of s2k enthusiasts, opinions of the '04 started out with "the sky is falling" pessimism, but with each passing day and new photo, magazine review etc., more people are starting to like it. Not everyone mind you, and I'll agree with you that the changes may not snag some repeat customers who already love the old car. But you know, I'm sure Honda had a budget for this refresh, and I think they did a pretty good job with it.
I certainly wasn't commenting on your dick size, you were just delivering your view of how the market will react. I just don't think the 2 attributes you mentioned will make a buy/no buy decision for most people when factored in with all the other changes. So we agree to disagree, nothing personal.
Oh and by the way, it's HUGE
Peter
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 155
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From: SanJuan
i dunno why you guys are complaining so much about the new 2.2L engine..
no one has driven one yet , and theyre saying it sucks..
IMHO- i think its not bad.. i mean, 2.2L = bigger displacement = better for you F/I guys that wanna con S/C or Turbo.. ; and if Normally Aspirated is your thing, youre probably bugged about no having the 9k RPM Redline , but .. im sure Aftermarket ECU's will probably set a higher Redline that the stock one... (maybe 9k..)
L8R
no one has driven one yet , and theyre saying it sucks..
IMHO- i think its not bad.. i mean, 2.2L = bigger displacement = better for you F/I guys that wanna con S/C or Turbo.. ; and if Normally Aspirated is your thing, youre probably bugged about no having the 9k RPM Redline , but .. im sure Aftermarket ECU's will probably set a higher Redline that the stock one... (maybe 9k..)
L8R
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,230
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From: Sydney
I think Rick has a hit the nail on the head there.
Most "family cars" have a good amount of torque with an economical engine.
Torque allows flexiblity within the same gear. High revving torque deficient motors need good gearing.
This may be an attempt to gain those people who think that the s2000 is too hard to drive, or that it is really only good for racing and not city cruising.
The extra torque should allow that s2000 to get our of sharp corners quicker - you can't say that is a bad thing.
According to EVO magazine - "Honda is secretly working on a revised engine for it slow-selling s2000, to counter criticism of it meagre torque (151 lbft at a giddy 7500rpm). A 2.2 litre version of the VTEC motor offering much greater torque at lower revs as well as boosting power from the current 237bhp to 250bhp should debut early next year at the Detroit motor show"
Most "family cars" have a good amount of torque with an economical engine.
Torque allows flexiblity within the same gear. High revving torque deficient motors need good gearing.
This may be an attempt to gain those people who think that the s2000 is too hard to drive, or that it is really only good for racing and not city cruising.
The extra torque should allow that s2000 to get our of sharp corners quicker - you can't say that is a bad thing.
According to EVO magazine - "Honda is secretly working on a revised engine for it slow-selling s2000, to counter criticism of it meagre torque (151 lbft at a giddy 7500rpm). A 2.2 litre version of the VTEC motor offering much greater torque at lower revs as well as boosting power from the current 237bhp to 250bhp should debut early next year at the Detroit motor show"
