You're not going to be shifting nearly as smoothly or as QUICKLY as with using the clutch. Let's leave the clutchless upshifts for those with dog-ring boxes, 'K? And even they use the clutch for downshifts.

Shifting the S2k properly includes using the clutch.


If I see the word "butter" or "buttery" in this thread again I might vomit...

 

 

buttery butter

 

 

it is just as smooth as with the clutch, but no where near as fast.

 

some of you guys need a role model and some of you world challenge drivers need to remember that somewhere along the line someone was patient with you in the begining........you wont learn how to manipulate a car on this thread. i learned how to shift from disassembling a transmision to see what my hand on the shifter actualy does, combined with watching in car profesional race car driver footage. If you watch videos like the one on this thread you can compare that to most others like it. They all use similar techniques. do some homework and find out what the three rotating shafts in the drivetrain are, what components conect and disconect each shaft from the others, and what controls manipulate the rpm of each shaft. and dont expect a NASA instructor to teach you how to heel toe. most of them are scared to death of teaching that to someone in a track enviroment for good reason. --------->

 

1st isn't meant to be rev-matched. As I posted previously, 2nd can be used as a substitute for 1st in 99.9% of those low-speed cases. You're more likely to cause damage downshifting to 1st anywhere past 10-15 mph. Just use 2nd for speeds higher than that!

There may be situations on the track or autoX that require a downshift from 2nd to 1st, but on the street it's unnecessary. Just my opinion. You can go ahead and try to blow 1st like that one guy in this thread who force-shifts 1st at high speeds.

 

It's been a while since I logged in but I've got to jump in. I love these conversations. Without wading through all the pages of this conversation but responding to some of what I've read already, I'll offer the following.

Rev matching is simply the process of getting the engine to the rpms it needs to be at for the gear being shifted to. On an up shift, it's not big deal and happens naturally as you step on the clutch while releasing the throttle and the engine speed naturally slows down to where it needs to be for the next higher gear. The only trick to that is getting the timing down as some engines speed up and/or slow down faster than others but most folks who are at least average in the manual tranny driving skills will adapt fairly quickly to a new vehicle.

Rev matching on a down shift requires a slight throttle blip to bring the engine speed "up" to where it needs to be for the "lower" gear being shifted to. Doing it right does a couple of things. First, it makes for a smoother process that is easier on the clutch and drive train and, second, makes for a smoother experience for any passengers that may be in the car. Doing it well is, IMO, the sign of a competent manual tranny driver. Jerking the car all over the place while shifting gears (up or down) just isn't cool. It's hard on the car and "not" a confidence builder for anyone unlucky enough to be in the car with you. It can also cause control issues if you're driving under marginal traction condition.

When I first got my S2000, I had a hard time making smooth down shifts. The engine picks up and looses rpms very quickly compared to the other manual tranny vehicles I've driven. I almost always over reved the engine with the throttle blip. I found it easier to rev match a multi gear down shift, like going from 6th to 4th, 5th to 3rd, or 4th to 2nd because of the greater rpm change between gears. Doing single gear down shifts, like 6th to 5th or 4th to 3rd, required a slightly different technique. I'm talking normal relaxed driving here but I found I could simply lighten up on the throttle briefly, like what it would take to barely maintain speed, then step on the clutch, shift the gear and release the clutch, letting the engine naturally speed up on it's own once the clutch lets go. Like up shifting, all I had to do was get the timing down and I got pretty good at it after a while. For the record, the technique works well for all the gears. With all respects to Disqustipated, you can rev match all the gears. I agree it's not usually required for 1st but I've played around on some nice twisty roads in California where I found myself in a position to do it and it worked quite well. Someone else mentioned engine braking and it works just as well too. Once you've got the lower gear engaged, simply get your foot fully off the clutch and throttle and she'll slow down under engine braking just fine. As an aside, on where your foot should be? The "ONLY" time your foot should be anywhere near the clutch peddle is when you're actually shifting gears or sitting at a red light / stop sign. The rest of the time, your foot should be squarely "on the floor," even if it's just for s split second between shifts. Doing otherwise is asking for a prematurely worn out clutch. You may not think you're riding the clutch but believe me, it doesn't take much pressure on the peddle to make it slip a little. It won't be anything you'll notice while driving but it will take it's toll. I saw one guy completely toast a new clutch in less than 20k miles miles by holding his foot over the peddle all the time. FWIW!

On the subject of double clutching, that's a whole different animal. It achieves the same goals as rev matching on a down shift but with an added twist. It is a process that was absolutely required on our great grandfathers manual tranny vehicles because they didn't have synchronizers. You step on the clutch, shift to neutral, release the clutch, rev the engine to the proper rpms required (which also rev matches the tranny's internal gears) for the road speed and gear being shifted to, then step on the clutch again, engage the proper gear, release the clutch a second time and away you go. Note, you just stepped on, and released, the clutch twice to effect one gear change cycle, hence the term, "double" clutching. Folks that are really good at it can do it as fast as us normal folks shift a fully synchronized transmission. You don't find too many of those people these days because the skill really isn't needed any more. You will find however, that when doing a multi gear down shift, like 6th to 3rd or 5th to 2nd, doing a proper double clutch will make the shift go much more smoothly and take a lot of pressure off the synchronizers in the process. You'll definitely feel that in how much less pressure is needed on the gear shifter to engage the gear you need! Is it absolutely necessary? Not really, not in our modern transmissions, but it will help the overall longevity of the transmission as a whole and, like doing a proper rev match, is the sign of someone who really knows there stuff with manual transmissions. I tried it a few times on my S2000 but it generally took me several tries to get it right each time I tried it. When it worked, it was really sweet but considering the way I usually drove the car, wasn't worth the trouble.

Hope all this makes sense!

Drive Safe,
Steve R.

 

Well stated!!

On upshifts, I drive the car as you wrote, simply changing how fast I shift for each gear based on how quickly the rpms drop.

While I don't double clutch as much these days (simply because I don't get to drive on roads that require quick downshifts), I did learn that method of downshifting from driving an older vehicle with no synchros or power steering and have to say its the smoothest method of downshifting I have performed. While it may not be needed with the advance in technology, it is still useful and does save on 'wear and tear' as you mentioned.