cthree your thinking is flawed IF this banjo bolt will correct the #4 cylinder scoring problem.

Enough of us have had this problem without autobahn style driving that the reliablity of the F20C is in question. If we assume that this banjo bolt recall would have prevented the #4 cylinder failures, then it is a mandatory upgrade. You can get #4 cylinder failure with relatively short periods of high rpm driving. This does not require speeding, only running the engine at an appropriate gear for 6,000 rpm to 9,000 rpm driving.

Remember, my case. My car had only 650 miles on in. I was driving on the interstate in Wyoming in JANUARY! It was about 40 degrees F outside. I was on a short interstate cruise around home.

Having said all of that, none of us know if this recall applies to the U.S. Perhaps our engines already have this. Perhaps it has to do with lubricants or octane.

My own guess is that AHM is planning to do this recall too, but that they are ramping up to do it right. It makes sense to do the recall first in smaller markets to work out the kinks, and then do it in the larger markets. If it were a safety issue, they would want to do it fast. Since it is a financial issue, they can take their corporate time to do it smoothly.

It is primarily a financial issue. If a new short block were a $100 problem instead of an $8,000 problem, perhaps they wouldn't do it at all.

 

What AHM fails to consider is that some S2000 owners take their cars to race tracks. Depending on the track, one could keep the car in VTEC for extended periods of time.

On the flipside, could there be any downside to installing this new banjo bolt if one doesn't really need it -- meaning could it have some (relative) detrimental side effects? Just curious...

 

Anyone know how we can get all it needs to do it ourself ?

 

I agree with BayyWY, doesn't make sense for Honda to keep buying engines. I expect that Honda is ramping up. Keep in mind that Honda is a business, and, on a business level it makes no sense to spend $$$ foolishly.

 

You guys really think that replacing few long blocks at 5-8k each would be more expensive than a nationwide recall? Let's do some math...

First, remember, most of the #4 failures we know of have already been fixed, and the remainder of the affected cars are rapidly aging out of their warranty periods. So I'd guess a couple dozen motors is all we're looking at here. Two dozen long blocks at $10K apiece is $250K.

Now the recall. When all's said and done, I think it's conservative to estimate it would cost Honda $100/car. That counts administrative costs (organizing the recall, sending notices etc.), labor, parts, etc. For 25,000 affected cars, that's $2.5 million. Not to mention the negative publicity of issuing a recall.

Hmm, which scenario do you think is the most likely "business decision"?

 

cthree's logic makes some sense but I have to agree with pellisS2K and Barry -- it's not the speed of the vehicle that's going to make the difference but rather the turning speed of the engine. I'm sure there's plenty of people here who have run their engine between 6,000 and 9,000 RPMs for an extended period of time whether they were racing, auto-crossing, going for a "spirited" drive in the hills, or just cruising down the freeway. I've run my engine above 6,000 RPMs on multiple occassions, for more than 20 minutes at a time, while attacking a twisty, hilly road.

I also recall the owner's manual of my car coming with a postcard from the SCCA encouraging me to become a member. If Honda allowed the SCCA to advertise their membership benefits and events, they had to expect that the engines would see a lot of high-RPM use.

Guessing from some of the members here who have encountered this problem, I don't think it takes hours of high-speed driving to do the damage.

 

I think you guys are missing the point of what I said. It is ONLY when in sixth that you MUST vtec for LONG periods of time. By long I mean more than an hour straight. You aren't going to drive on the freeway at 65 in 3rd for an hour nor are you going to be on a racetrack lapping for an hour. I'm talking a full tank of gas. I'm not saying VTEC 200 times a day. I'm saying VTEC for more than an hour straight.

Barry I understand your situation but I don't think your issue was the same issue which this TSB in europe addresses. Your engine was brand new and it was one of the first times it was VTEC'd. It was DOA to start with IMHO and not caused by environmental or driving conditions.

I don't expect my car to complete the Le Mans 24hr nor do I expect AHM to pay such that I can but I'm open to offers

I'm saying do it yourselves if you think you need to or if it bothers you rather than wait around for AHM to do it or your short block to go, whichever comes first. We can order the bolts from Europe and I'm sure it won't cost much for them.

 

If such an order is organized, count me in!