S2000 is #7 on this Lemon List.
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 332
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From: Portland
No matter how you argue the merits of this list. I own both the number 6 (S2000) and number 9 (2002 Explorer) on the list. I suggest that everyone watches what I buy and stay away from it. Apparently, I can't pick-em and have the curse.
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 432
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From: Louisville
I strongly suspect that, on any car that didn't deliver the amount of fun this one does, I'd have branded it a lemon myself long ago. In many ways, it reminds me of the old british roadsters, where part of the price of admission was putting up with the car's idiocyncracies. We tend to not call it a lemon here, because we enjoy driving it too much.
Also, I agree that "handbuilt" no longer generates warm, fuzzy feelings of quality. I've seen the consistency and quality of welds and general auto manufacture go way up in the past 30 years, and I'm not about to go back to what I've seen in the past.
However, with this car, it seems that a reasonable percentage of the quality issues would have been better addressed by a PDfSS (Product Design for Six Sigma) instead of a Six Sigma attack on the manufacturing process. Several boneheads obviously crept into the engineering department, and contributed little gems such as:
- a night-vision adjustment on the rear-view mirror that is wrong for every possible driver
- a radio/CD deck that provides so much bass (even with the control turned to the absolute minimum) that even teenagers who are looking for "license plate shaking bass" think it's too much mid-bass
- sun visors that my 12 year-old could have improved upon (he'd have just yanked them and given away a free pair of designer sunglasses)
- seating height that makes this an uncomfortable car for most drivers over 5'11", in spite of the fact that a significant percentage of the American market is at or above this height
- a radio door that was designed by the Marquis de Sade, to guarantee maximum pain to your right knee, should you be so foolish as to open the radio door while driving the car (and happen to have an inseam greater than 30")
- an incredibly loud relay for the intermittent wipers
Keep in mind, these are problems that there is no possible TSB to resolve! These are problems you're going to have unless you alter the car dramatically from the factory! None of these make sense, given the attention to ergonomic detail that Honda has demonstrated in the past. Then there's:
- a voltage regulator for the electric windows that seems marginally designed... at best... in a vehicle where the auto-down feature is invoked by the power-top mechanism, and therefore all-the-more noticeable
- springs on the original clutch disc that (after about 10,000 miles) buzz and vibrate with a volume I've never heard on a production car
- a primarily cosmetic spark-plug cover that causes a relatively minor spark-plug problem to become an invitation to internal engine disaster
- paint that seems woefully thin for a car that's known for its striking appearance
Again, none of these items reflect a manufacturing defect in this car. The second class of problems (mentioned above) should have been solved at the design stage, but COULD have been addressed during long-term testing.
Now, with all that said, I've never driven ANY car that caused the kinds of questions, pointing, smiles, and uninvited compliments that this one does. I've also never driven another car that was as much fun to toss around, with or without the top down.
However, if any other car had this many design defects, I'd not hesitate to call it a "lemon."
Tim
Also, I agree that "handbuilt" no longer generates warm, fuzzy feelings of quality. I've seen the consistency and quality of welds and general auto manufacture go way up in the past 30 years, and I'm not about to go back to what I've seen in the past.
However, with this car, it seems that a reasonable percentage of the quality issues would have been better addressed by a PDfSS (Product Design for Six Sigma) instead of a Six Sigma attack on the manufacturing process. Several boneheads obviously crept into the engineering department, and contributed little gems such as:
- a night-vision adjustment on the rear-view mirror that is wrong for every possible driver
- a radio/CD deck that provides so much bass (even with the control turned to the absolute minimum) that even teenagers who are looking for "license plate shaking bass" think it's too much mid-bass
- sun visors that my 12 year-old could have improved upon (he'd have just yanked them and given away a free pair of designer sunglasses)
- seating height that makes this an uncomfortable car for most drivers over 5'11", in spite of the fact that a significant percentage of the American market is at or above this height
- a radio door that was designed by the Marquis de Sade, to guarantee maximum pain to your right knee, should you be so foolish as to open the radio door while driving the car (and happen to have an inseam greater than 30")
- an incredibly loud relay for the intermittent wipers
Keep in mind, these are problems that there is no possible TSB to resolve! These are problems you're going to have unless you alter the car dramatically from the factory! None of these make sense, given the attention to ergonomic detail that Honda has demonstrated in the past. Then there's:
- a voltage regulator for the electric windows that seems marginally designed... at best... in a vehicle where the auto-down feature is invoked by the power-top mechanism, and therefore all-the-more noticeable
- springs on the original clutch disc that (after about 10,000 miles) buzz and vibrate with a volume I've never heard on a production car
- a primarily cosmetic spark-plug cover that causes a relatively minor spark-plug problem to become an invitation to internal engine disaster
- paint that seems woefully thin for a car that's known for its striking appearance
Again, none of these items reflect a manufacturing defect in this car. The second class of problems (mentioned above) should have been solved at the design stage, but COULD have been addressed during long-term testing.
Now, with all that said, I've never driven ANY car that caused the kinds of questions, pointing, smiles, and uninvited compliments that this one does. I've also never driven another car that was as much fun to toss around, with or without the top down.
However, if any other car had this many design defects, I'd not hesitate to call it a "lemon."
Tim
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,343
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From: Brisbane
After having owned 2 s2000's and having driven several other high end honda's, I must say I have always enjoyed their cars immensely.
Hondas pathetic attempts at customer service I have not enjoyed.
In recent times it has dawned on me that honda achieve such exaggerated reports of reliability by blaming owners of abuse if it cannot be proven that a manufacturing defect was the cause.
Honda? Never again!
Hondas pathetic attempts at customer service I have not enjoyed.
In recent times it has dawned on me that honda achieve such exaggerated reports of reliability by blaming owners of abuse if it cannot be proven that a manufacturing defect was the cause.
Honda? Never again!
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,343
Likes: 0
From: Brisbane
I didn't even call my car a dud.
I just seems that from my and other local s2000 owners experiences Honda Australia is ten times better at screwing it customers than AHM who have got a pretty bad reputation.
I just seems that from my and other local s2000 owners experiences Honda Australia is ten times better at screwing it customers than AHM who have got a pretty bad reputation.