Well, the front of the engine in the top picture looks close to being even with the axle line, while in the lower photo, not so much.

I can see why it might be a topic of debate, depending on how much of the mass is behind the front axle line.

Many thanks for your response!

 

The engine mounts (and weight) of the miata engine are behind the front axle.

The Miata is a different car for a different purpose. One of the things you will see in most BRZ vs Miata debates is the amount of body roll in the Miata. This is a prime data point in the positioning of the car. Body roll makes it 'feel' faster in the turns and provides a sensation of fun. Polarizingly - I wish I could actually eliminate some of the active mounts and trickery in my 911 to get MORE body roll. For anyone short of a professional driver - body roll is actually good and lets you feel better where the limits are. The Miata having too much for a track and a 911 (with SPASM and PDCC) not enough. Actually the 911 becomes dangerous for an amateur for this reason; you can't feel the limits until it's too late and the rear end bias kicks your @ss. The S2000 factory body roll is pretty perfect IMO, which is better for lap times and still very fun at reasonable speeds on the street. The S2000 is a lot more composed vs a miata but the miata is going to be just a fun, hilarious toy. S2000 is much more serious. That's my take.

 

That's good info. Thanks.

Not to quibble, but even if the engine mounts are behind the axles, you can still have engine mass ahead of the axle if the engine extends past the axle line, and thus, a relatively higher polar moment of inertia if it sits further back.

Speaking of which, I have always wanted a 911 but I'd have to spend a lot of track time before I could ever feel comfortable pushing one through curves.

I once spun a friend's RX-7 360 degrees on an exit ramp with decreasing radius. That feeling stayed with me. I can just imagine how unforgiving a 911 would be with clumsy deceleration inputs .

 

The pivot points of the weight are behind the axle - would argue strongly that a.) mid engine and b.) its not a car that it really matters that much.

With regards to a 911 - Mine is fairly new and once every couple of years will go to the track for fun. Most street cars are not good track cars and most track cars really suck on the street - more so than people think. 911 is an EPIC street car that really has no rivals. With that being said - even a Porsche GT, while much better for track duty is not a car you want to track regularly. The maintenance is a killer and you're always better off financially to just spend ~40K on a Radical than to track a 911. Now if you have the money and don't care and just want to track your 911 then have at it. But that is preference. But if you really have that money then just buy a used cup car or the like. A Miata would be more fun on the track for me because I had to save and be financially strategic to get mine and would cry if i wrecked it... again - depth of money pockets and financial tolerance weigh heavily here.

 

I agree 100%. I own both and driving them back to back, the Miata is a more playful, fun toy. Where the S2K is a more serious, composed sports car.
The body roll is fun, it makes the limit extremely easy to feel (as does non-electric power steering) and it helps keep composure on the street in less than smooth road conditions (like hitting a bump mid-turn) and things like that.
Going from a stock 1st gen Miata to a stock AP2, the Miata does feel a lot smaller and lighter (it is). It feels more like a toy and makes the S feel more like a GT car.

 

When I said that it was a topic of debate, I meant mainly that the idea of 'FMR' front mid-engine does not seem to be well defined.
Some argue that it has no merits as a category at all because the difference in vehicle handling/behavior characteristics between FMR and FR is not great enough to warrant a 'new' classification.
Some argue that the front of the crank or camshafts have to be behind the front axle
Some argue that the center of mass of the motor has to be behind the front axle.

If there is a formal definition, please provide the source because I have yet to find one and it's annoying.

 

 

I drove a new 2017 Miata a year ago, and was not impressed. As has been mentioned, there is a lot of body roll, which engineered or not is not something I liked. The fit and finish was nice. The engine sounded like rocks in bucket, and was not very rev happy. Gearbox was good. Overall, I liked the idea of the car, but not the car itself. That is when I started looking for the right S2000 to buy as it had what I wanted. A rev happy engine, great gearbox and a little extra room. Perfect. Made sure I bought a perfect unmolested example, and I truly hope I get to keep it so that I don't have to sell it to S2KBG for his pocket change.

 

I'm not too surprised there's no formal definition. Who would define it to begin with?

I am just pointing out that, even if so, not all FMR are the same. The S2K, for example, has a lot more of the engine mass shifted to the "mid" part of the chassis via it's engine location than does the Miata. (But then, some of that might be offset by the Miata's lighter weight and shorter wheelbase (assuming the latter is shorter than the S2K)

It also seems to me that FMR warrants just as much of a classification as RMR, RR and FR classifications, regardless of the practical effects on handling, which are going to vary according by car anyway, depending on other variables. Bottom line, it's pretty much just a talking point,

But, nevertheless, centralization of mass is important from a physics standpoint and presumably it has a significant effect on handling, particularly at the limits and during transitions. But that's just my gut feeling. I am no engineer nor race driver.

 

I'm sorry but this is such an incredible "goober" article that it's almost embarrassing to see it here. Which car is better? it all depends on how you define your criteria. What cheeseball writing. Obviously most everyone here feels that the Honda better meets their needs (or desires). That doesn't exactly make the S "better" than the Miata. In my mind both cars are very significant in their own way and each represents the Japanese motor industry with quite a bit of pride. Please just give the curated content a rest already.