Porshe is, especially these days, in the business of selling cars. A limited run 5000/year vehicle, no matter how good, isn't going to concern them a whole bunch compared to the mass-markted BMW, MBenz, and Audi competitors. Unless Honda changes its marketing focus, I don't think they see them in their arena as competitors.

And as so many on this board have said, they wouldn't have bought the Porsche even if they did have the money, so we aren't even talking the same market segment. The Boxster is about much more than its perfomance, thus some of the price dfference. Obviously some of the price is due to getting a Porsche badge. They have stayed in business by combining snob-appeal with performance. Price too low and you lose some of the conspicuous consumption market. Unfortunately, if you want to buy into the performance, you get hit for the that name premium. But to claim that the price isn't worth it is the same as saying paying $150,000 for a 360 Modena isn't worth it. You can get a vette Z06 to rival the Modena's performance numbers, but would anyone argue the $100,000+ extra isn't worth it? Some would say "yes", but a lot would say (if they had the money) "give me the Ferrari!"

If Porsche ever decides to build a stripped down Boxster (in the vein of the RS America), I would imagine it will be a good deal quicker.

 

Boxster Boy... I cannot fault any of what you say. You have very valid arguments, and you present them is a very mature and articulate manner. The thing that I think rubs people the wrong way on this board is a bit of that 'snob' factor that you talked about. There is no hiding that you have the opinion that the Porsche is inherently 'better' than the S2000 in some esoteric sense.

And in some ways I would tend to agree with you. The is an honor and a history surrounding Porsche and Motorsports. What you have to remember is that there is just as much history in the Honda marque in the racing arena. The S2000 to me conjures up images of Mr. Honda creating the first F1 car. It conjures up images of the Senna piloted F1 car that won so many races. It conjures up images of Jauques Villenueve's current F1 steed. In short, this car reeks of motorsport technology. That's the appeal here. The car creates it's own mystique for Honda road vehicles as it is the first truly passionate road car that they have produced, but it draws on a rich and illustrious racing heritage.

My point is this... you seem to dismiss the Honda as a mere blip on the radar due to the fact that it comes from the same company as a Civic. This is simply unfair. The car had every bit the 'heart' that your Porsche does. I respect the fact that Porsche only builds sports cars, but that doesn't diminish the fact that the S2000 is a formidable competitor at a great value, and with just as much passion as the P-car.

The key is this... Ask anyone... people on the street who don't know cars, and ask about a Porsche. They will immediately think 'sports car.' They are mainstream in the respect that everyone knows what they stand for. They are not mainstream because their price is unobtainable by most. The S2000 on the other hand, requires a true racing and automotive enthusiast to look past the Honda badge and see a pure, passionate tribute to motorsports at a very affordable price.

Different cars evoke different passions to different people... the 'vette might evoke passion to some, the Porsche to many - but there is a very exclusive bunch that 'get it' about the S2000. I ask you Boxster Boy... have you tried an S2000? I mean *really* tried one? I think you'd like it. I feel you'd consider it more of an equal to your Boxster, rather than inferior.

 

Once the Cayenne comes out, you can say bye bye to that statement!

 

too true, jay. for once i agree with you.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BoxsterBoy
[B]
Porshe is, especially these days, in the business of selling cars.

 

Hey guys:
I know i won

 

Okay, I am genuinely confused as to where in my post I "dismmiss" the S2000. I said Honda was making it in very limited quantity. Porsche is competing for the large-scale market with the other mass-marketed roadsters...the Z3, the CLK, the TT. When Honda decides to make them in unlimited quantities, then Prosche will worry. Do they actually make money on S2000's or is this a PR car on which they are willing to lose some amount of money? Anyone know? Due to the limited release, I would guess it loses money for them, but that is a guess. That might explain why you get so much bang for your buck.

Anyway, why is it so insulting to think Porsche isn't trembling in their boots because Honda sells an inexpensive sports car? It is a question of economics, not snobbery.

And the Cayenne..if anything should tell you Porsche's focus is economics, it is the fact they are introducing an SUV; albeit an SUV with some amazing engine options.

Porsche exec's don't lose sleep because someone makes a faster/cheaper car. They lose sleep when someone makes a car that impacts their sales figures in a significant way.

 

Your figures on what constitute limited release are wrong. 5000 was the projected figure for US release, but its closer to 9000 in the US. I do not know if that includes Canada or not. I suspect not.

But that leaves South America, Europe, Asia, and Australia. Its likely that you can account for another 10,000-15,000 overseas. (if not more)

Lets suppose there were no S2000. How many owners who paid 37,000$ for their S2000 in the first year could afford $42,000 base price for the original Boxster? Lets suppose it was 60% (its probably higher, $5000 isn't that much).

(9000+15000)*.60 = 14,400 * 42,000 = $604,800,000

So Porsche lost potential sales of $600 million dollars in the first year, and you don't think that worried them in the slightest? Over half a billion dollars in sales. Especially given that official projected production numbers of S2000's were increase in the second year.

Porsche Boxster would have been the natural choice for anyone looking at the S2000 if the S2000 had not been an option. You purchased one, no? Many of us here test drove them before choosing the S2000. And I don't think the price difference puts them out of reach. They still fall below the luxury tax price. We're not talking about the S series, which came later.

-B

 

Ok... you didn't verbally dismiss the S2000. But by saying that Porsche should have nothing to worry about, you are saying that you don't feel the S2000 is up to the task of competing with the Boxster. Some of your comments were geared toward putting a certain amount of inferiority on the Honda. Especially with the Modena vs. Z06 analogy. The Z06 is a great peice of machinery, but I don't think anyone would argue it's in the same leage as the Modena. What I'm saying is the Boxster and S2000 are CLEARLY in the same league. They are in the same market segment, and while S2000 sales will never top Boxster sales, the S2000 is a very respectable competitor. There are allot people that would pay the extra for the Porsche mystique, but still others that revel in the fact that they are saving money while getting one of the purest performance vehicles available. It all comes down to personal preference... we are talking about our opinions here, whether we like it or not. By saying that Porsche is not 'shaking in their boots' is admitting that *you* are not. You are verbalizing that in an attempt to convince yourself that Porsche still has something that the Honda doesn't. What I keep trying to say, but apparently is not getting through, is that there probably aren't two more similar cars on the road. They are both amazing automobiles, and I would be proud to own either one. I understand what the S2000 is all about. Your posts lead me to believe that your opinion is that the Boxster is in a different league than the Honda, and you only would feel proud owning the Porsche. And that's fine... People have different opinions, as evidenced by our differences. I like to think that I have an open mind, though, and give everyone a fair chance. All I am asking is that you give the S2000 the respect it deserves. You don't have to buy a car to show your respect... a simple "I love my Boxster, but I really like that S2000 and respect the passion level of their owners" would be nice. Is that asking too much?

 

I love my Boxster, but I really like that S2000 and respect the passion level of their owners.

With that (sincerely) said, why do you (Jason) dismiss the Z06 vs Modena comparison? Do you "dismiss" the Chevy? Their performance numbers are VERY close. Ferrari snobbery on your part? I am sure the Z06 guys ridicule the over-priced high-dollar super cars the same way you guys deride the Boxster as being overpriced.

I respectfully submit you are just a tad TOO proud of your cars. If the rest of the world isn't trembling in your high-revving wake, we must be elistist snobs. As great as it is, the S2000 has a number of significant points against it, as far as the vast majority of the driving public is concerned. Low torque, noisy, no storage, spartan interior, etc...these tend to limit the mass-market appeal of a car. The Boxster addresses some of the these issues, at an increased price. So for everyone but the person focused SOLELY on performance, these cars are VERY different.

I respect both cars for what they are; but they aren't the same car no matter how badly you want to believe it.

As for the S2000's impact on Boxster sales, there has got to be one, but Porsche sells every Boxster they make. The S has a 4 month wait-list. Go figure.