While that is true, it is not how people were sold the things that led up to ballooning values. The "haves" are benefitting by asset appreciation while virtue signaling about their compassion towards the have nots. Are the "haves" duplicitous in their compassion or are they just naive to how inflated values harm those trying to enter the asset ladder? Rhetorical question...

As to the subject matter of this post, I don't like S2000 appreciation because I like driving my car. It's not a static art piece. It's not going to car shows to sit in parking lots for others to admire. It is one of the best affordable driver's cars sold in the last 3 decades that has some characteristics that are not obtainable outside of exotics. Affordable is a key there and that is going away. Mine is worth near 2x what I paid for it 3 years ago. I don't want to sell it, I want to track it. If anything bad happens, that costs me a lot more to remediate. I don't want to realize the gains in appreciation but I will have to replace parts and crashes happen.

 

Better is a largely subjective word though, it really depends on what your criteria is. As far as a purely driving experience goes, I would say that the S is still better than the cars you mention. Which category, as a driver's car, is the S beat? Power is there, handling is there, gearbox is one of the best ever made, and even the stock brakes are fine if you aren't going crazy. Open air car gives the driver great visibility and stock suspension is pretty good, and most of these things are only better on AP2s.

Sure, newer cars have more airbags, computer assists, creature comforts, infotainment... but that's largely irrelevant to a driver's car. People who want the experience that the S provides couldn't care less about those things. Yes, I agree the S can feel a bit droning at times with the top up cruising on the highway at 4k rpm, and cargo space is limited. But in terms of what the car puts down, it's still hard to beat 20 years later. Hence the demand and prices.

I know I was being cheeky about tires, but the point is you can't just slap some new tires on a BRZ and think you're going to have an S. Even AP1s beat their lap times at nearly every single track and similar with straight line times. And at the end of the day, it's about the fun and experience (after all, that's why we're driving these instead of a boring economy box). In my opinion, the S has a more rewarding and exhilarating experience there.

The bigger question, in my opinion, is why can't Toyota, Subaru, or Mazda make an affordable sports car 20 years after the fact that beats the S for similar price point? We have all aluminum designs, direct injection, and whatever else... yet still can't get 240hp+ out of a NA 2.2L? Or add proper wishbone suspension on a monocoque chassis?

 

Objectively, the ND2 Miata is better than the AP2 in just about every metric except HP and max RPM. It is also cheaper than the S2k was, especially inflation adjusted. Not to queue in that thread but your analysis is just off. 240+ hp out of a 2.2 NA is probably not going to happen due to emissions regulations. Short stroke, high revving NA engines are going away because of them. Production high strung NA engines only really exist in motorcycles and Lamborghinis.

Subjectively is a different question and that is where the S shines and is not likely to be superseded. The pressures of the modern world do not incentivize it and may simply not allow it. Likewise, engineering costs, emissions, and safety regs have made the R&D cost so high for new vehicles. That is why you are seeing shared platforms become the only possible way to make a sports car. Mazda could afford to invest tons of R&D into a Miata because they know people will buy it. For Toyota to create a dedicated platform to truly compete with the Miata is unlikely. The marketshare of people looking to buy that type of car is small and unlikely to be pulled from a Honda accord to a Toyota "Miata" equivalent. At best, they'd tempt some Miata/Mustang/Camaro/400z buyers. If you start pulling buyers from the Miata, would Mazda be able to invest the R&D costs to making the Miata as good as it was? Wayyyy different world than 90s era golden Honda engineering. The general populace also really does not care about "driving experience." I believe that used to be a selling point for normal cars that would have many current young buyers confused.

 

I don't think it's a fair comparison in terms of cost. The S2000 was never built as an economy product and in today's terms, the MSRP is more along the lines of $47k. They can spend much more on R&D to produce one off chassis and drivetrains. And aside from cost, IMO, any major automakers can build high revving NA engines that are engaging/fun/exciting to drive but there are a couple of important factors that will stop manufacturers from ever coming out with another drivetrain like the S2000: Emissions and Market.

The F20C was made in an era where emissions standards were far more relaxed. Today, we are looking at the end of life for IC engine. Hello EVs. I do applaud Honda for making iconic cars such as NSX, ITR, S2000 back in the 90s when no one else did. But even if Honda built a true S2000 successor that is true to its heritage today, high revving, FR layout, convertible and exciting to drive, it will come at an extreme price point. Everyone is still going to complain about the price, why it only has 180ft/lb @ 20k rpm, why no turbo, how come this does not ride like a Z4 when it cost more? blah blah blah........ Sure, a small subset of "enthusiasts" will buy it but I bet it will be a marketing failure. Everyone today wants 50000 lb/ft from idle. And let's face it, even if Honda still made/sold our beloved S2000 today @ $47k, I think a large subset of current S2000 owners will not be buying it.

The sportscar segment is dwindling, it just doesn't make financial sense for manufacturers to invest heavily into making them anymore. How many cheap FR sportscars are still being made today? I count 2, ND Miata and the 86 twins. The fact that 86 being sold for $25k can rival the performance of the S2000 is actually quite an engineering marvel if you ask me. The ND is also amazing coming in @ 2300lbs but that does come at a higher price point. I am just glad that Toyota/Subaru and Mazda are still making FR sportscars at an affordable price point.

 

I hope the prices of all houses and apartments go down. Housing should be attainable to all. Cars aren’t stocks and it’s gross that everything is viewed as a profit center rather than a hobby. Cars have utility, stocks, cryptocurrencies, etc., do not.

I want S2000 prices to remain low because the people who buy S2000 to drive them 300 miles a year and brag about how low mileage they are really suck and make the community way less fun.

As far as safety stuff, yes it is rad that if I’m sitting at a red light and someone crashes into the car at 50 MPH I will die whereas I may be fine in a new BRZ or ND Miata. Hate those dang safety nannies!

The ND and BRZ start at like 26-28k, that’s nearly half what AP1 msrp is adjusted for inflation. I’m sure there’s room for improvement if Subaru/Mazda wanted to sell less cars for a ton more money while polluting the planet even more than they already do.

But yes, the early electric power steering in the S2000 is surely better than any of the much better systems developed since lol and the shifters in the brz/nd are not excellent themselves.

 

All good points about modern cars like the ND2 and 86. I believe they are a product of modern society and the market, which... is something that I personally don't care for in many cases. They are perfectly fine cars in their own right, and no one should feel bad for buying one or enjoying them today. I just feel that they won't capture the same essence and vibe that the S did. To be fair, the Miata was always the cheaper of the two, even back in the day.

I'm quite a nostalgic and sentimental person, so perhaps that plays into it a bit. I just feel that there's something special captured in the S that can't be reproduced today. The same magic that classic NES or Sega games have (or even PS1) compared to your modern titles. Sure, the newer ones are updated and have better features, connectivity, graphics, online play... but still lack that special something.

That's how I feel about the S, and I don't deny it has its own flaws as well for being an older car. Getting out of the car and hearing the "you left your lights on" warning. Having to remember to put the key in for push start. Having a worthless center cup holder. Not being able to see what's playing or navigation on a touchscreen. Not being able to set a specific temperature for the cabin. It's a very 90s car and I still love it for that. It's like bottling up everything that was great about that time period into a single car and being reminded of it every time you drive it.

The new CTR gave me a reality check. Things will not be like they used to before. Any attempt at a S3000 will likely fall similar which will have cool styling but won't deliver the same experience and fun. So if you want to experience that, you have only one choice really.

I don't think it's any coincidence that the classics are selling for a pretty penny given their age and miles. And not just limited to sports cars, a fair condition CRX Si will fetch a decent price.

 

The ND2 is faster than an S2k.

And, the upcoming 2022 GR86/BRZ is now gonna be faster than the ND2 (and the S2k) ...with the help of 2.4L, 13:1 compression, big torque-dip gone, and peak torque very down low. (yeah, sounds like we're talking about a truck, lol)

Obviously, S2k handling will be much tighter and razor-sharp than both the newer cars. But, just talking about the engine&car performance.

Yes, F20/22C is way more awesome because high rev and vtec yo... while the 2022 86/BRZ is more truck-like... but, it'll still smoke an S2k, lol.

 

I don't really get why people are obsessed with convincing others the S2K is faster/better than more modern vehicles. The newest examples are 12 years old now, the majority will be at least 15, there should be any number of vehicles that have supplanted the S2K in its segment, and the fact not many have is testament to the engineering Honda put in. There's no shame in admitting the S2K isn't top dog, no one's a champion forever. The S2K isn't a "future classic" any more, it's just a classic.

You don't see too many E-Type roadster owners furiously denying a large number of sports cars from the '90s (including the S2K by some measures) are a better proposition in terms of performance, they just accept that times have changed, performance benchmarks have moved on, and satisfy themselves with the knowledge they're driving one of the coolest cars ever. And there's certainly no shortage of people dreaming of buying one, or throwing truckloads of money at one.

Just drive it and enjoy it. If you get more back at the end than you paid up front, you've gained financially. If not, you've still owned and driven one of the greats, and you bloody loved it.

 

House prices went down in 08/09. I bought my hobby car in 09. In retrospect, I should have bought a house or stocks to realize a big financial gain, but then I wouldn't have had as much fun, being part of the community

If someone smashes into you at a red light doing 50MPH, you had better have said your prayers before you left your affordable house, because the nannies just may not save you.

 

There maybe faster cars but not RAW like the s2000