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Data updated as of today's sale.
Example of the filtering/analysis capability: looking only at base models without OEM hardtop, between 10k and 80k miles, it's clear that there's been an accelerating runup recently. (Note that the silver '05 at bottom right was a heavily track-modified car.) It's also clear that GPW cars command a noticeable premium.
The graph that you posted on S2K, 5/7/21, of the BAT prices. Where did you get that graph? I didn't know you could search like that. Did you import the data yourself into a program? I didn't see that functionality on BAT. Thanks
Hmm. It's cheaper than my 8th gen Civic LX was. Granted, I had that in my early to late 20s, and I'm 30 now with the s2k. I pay about $1200 a year for both my ae86 and s2k and that's with an accident under me. S2k is about $900 a year. My most expensive car was a 3 year old Gen Coupe 3.8 that cost $1800 a year alone to insure. I was surprised that the s2k didn't really cost me much given that it's a two door roadster. Full coverage for all too.
I remember shopping around and thinking I'd get a new Toyota 86 after my ABS failed and I smashed my Civic to death, but the quote I got was something near $3k from my insurance company, so for me the decision to go with a used older car, the s2k, was pretty simple lol.
That's probably the best thing about buy-in prices remaining high. They are not cheap enough for less responsible people to buy, generally speaking. Too impractical to be an only car and too old for most traditional financing. My guess as to why insurance costs are not very high.
The S2000 is great for a number of reasons, but imo the driving experience is available elsewhere if you’re willing to make certain sacrifices.
But why would you go elsewhere for the same driving experience if you have to make sacrifices? That really, imo, invalidates any argument you were trying to make.
It does everything my modified AP2 does on the street while being safer, quieter (easy to fix with an exhaust), and burning less fuel.
...now, add a much roomier and convenient cargo area (esp with its' fold down seats), a hardtop (coupe I guess), flatter cornering and more razor-sharp handling (closer to, or better, than an S2k), and now reportedly faster than even the ND2 in the upcoming 2022 models... you have a 2022 GR86/BRZ ;D
Seems like a better buy than both an overpriced used/beatup S2k or a newer ND2.
But why would you go elsewhere for the same driving experience if you have to make sacrifices? That really, imo, invalidates any argument you were trying to make.
Paying double or three times its contemporaries is a sacrifice in its own right.
Paying double or three times its contemporaries is a sacrifice in its own right.
Unless you don't want one of those contemporaries.
I'd rather pay $5 for an Oh Henry bar vs $2 for a Skor bar because I LOVE Oh Henrys and Skor is gross. For me, the sacrifice would be owning something I don't like very much... let alone something I don't LOVE. That's the real waste of money there.
Unless you don't want one of those contemporaries.
I'd rather pay $5 for an Oh Henry bar vs $2 for a Skor bar because I LOVE Oh Henrys and Skor is gross. For me, the sacrifice would be owning something I don't like very much... let alone something I don't LOVE. That's the real waste of money there.
That's all fine, love is irrational. I think most of the pushback is how many mental manipulations have been gone through to try to justify the love for the s2k in objective terms. With contemporaries beating it in objective terms and s2k prices going up, rational explanations begin to fall away. It used to be objectively and subjectively great for the price tag and I think we're struggling to come to terms with that changing. The kool-aid here is strong. I love mine in irrational terms and would struggle to determine a course of action if something happened to mine. I'd still want an S2k but know it's irrational.
Unless you don't want one of those contemporaries.
I'd rather pay $5 for an Oh Henry bar vs $2 for a Skor bar because I LOVE Oh Henrys and Skor is gross. For me, the sacrifice would be owning something I don't like very much... let alone something I don't LOVE. That's the real waste of money there.
That’s great. I’m simply saying a lot of the hype is based in stuff that isn’t necessarily based in reality.
Originally Posted by Jub
That's all fine, love is irrational. I think most of the pushback is how many mental manipulations have been gone through to try to justify the love for the s2k in objective terms. With contemporaries beating it in objective terms and s2k prices going up, rational explanations begin to fall away. It used to be objectively and subjectively great for the price tag and I think we're struggling to come to terms with that changing. The kool-aid here is strong. I love mine in irrational terms and would struggle to determine a course of action if something happened to mine. I'd still want an S2k but know it's irrational.
If something happened to mine, I’d feel something but not be nearly as broken up as it seems many of y’all would. Maybe that’s just growth away from cars on my part or maybe I just haven’t let the hype cloud my judgment.
Rapidly rising prices as of late certainly aren't exclusive to just the S2000, or even just to enthusiast/collector cars for that matter. As for the rest of the conversation, whether new or used, I don't look at a sports car purchase in practical terms. It's much more of a passion-based decision.
When it comes to current choices to replace a roadster like the S2000 with at anywhere near the same price, I can only think of one, the ND2 Miata. The Miata seems like a great car, but the more I look at it, the more soured I become on the ND design (in my opinion this isn't Mazda's fault as safety regulations have not been kind to car designs in general over the past number of years and that includes the Miata). In addition, infotainment systems are going to feel horribly outdated soon enough. It's a shame that such systems aren't optional. It shouldn't come a a surprise that were I forced to replace the S2000, it wouldn't be with anything that is currently being produced. In my case, the S2000 is about as new as a car gets while still managing to appeal to me.
...now, add a much roomier and convenient cargo area (esp with its' fold down seats), a hardtop (coupe I guess), flatter cornering and more razor-sharp handling (closer to, or better, than an S2k), and now reportedly faster than even the ND2 in the upcoming 2022 models... you have a 2022 GR86/BRZ ;D
Seems like a better buy than both an overpriced used/beatup S2k or a newer ND2.
ND2 weighs 2300ish pounds though. Toyobaru >2700. When they upped the power and redline of the ND, it instantly became a more appealing purchase if weight matters to you. It's astonishing Mazda managed to release a new car that weighs as little as something from 30 years ago for that price point. I thought the old Toyobaru was a great drive, but the weight and price kept going up while the powertrain remained the same year over year. Would be interesting to drive a new one though with the bump in power. I much prefer the look of the new BRZ over all the previous iterations too. Probably in the minority there, but I have a thing for sarcastic fish faced cars and am glad car design is getting past the stage of screaming banshee, pissed off at the world look.
Originally Posted by Jub
That's all fine, love is irrational. I think most of the pushback is how many mental manipulations have been gone through to try to justify the love for the s2k in objective terms. With contemporaries beating it in objective terms and s2k prices going up, rational explanations begin to fall away. It used to be objectively and subjectively great for the price tag and I think we're struggling to come to terms with that changing. The kool-aid here is strong. I love mine in irrational terms and would struggle to determine a course of action if something happened to mine. I'd still want an S2k but know it's irrational.
Seems to be the case with all cult cars entering the classic stage. Easy enough to justify imo. There's nothing that replicates the nature of the S2k that closely among contemporaries. The way the engine note, power delivery, appearance, transmission, interior feel, and relative simplicity of the car work together is always going to be unique. It's modern enough with an OG Japanese sports car feel with no infotainment, distractions, and limited nannies. Nothing wrong with seeking that specific experience over clinically chasing the bleeding edge, on-paper, ideal track conditions numbers of new cars if that's what you want. I mean, I went for an S2k when I could have gone ND2 or even maybe a Type R.
