Annoyances on the 08 that I owned, compared to my AP1s:
Slower steering rack gear ratio.
Flywheel is 22lbs, easy to rev-hang, slower throttle response. (ap1 flywheel is 11lbs)
Clutch delay valve. (wtf Honda)

 

Yes, the late cars are more civilized than the early cars which were crashed at an alarming rate by drivers who had never driven a RWD car. Guys are still learning those lessons based on crashes noted here on a routine basis. Regardless of VSA, etc., these are still cars you need to pay attention in if pushing it.

Rev limiter on my 2006 car is 8400rpm. AP1 limiter is 8900. 500rpm different. So what? Both engines have the same peak horsepower -- at a rpm rarely used. And peak power is below the red line on both engines. The AP2 engine has more mid range torque and power, the area under the curve -- where we drive. FlashPro tuned VTEC -- the high power cam -- hits at 3600 rpm, not 6000. That's nearly 5000 rpm of increased power available. Revs climb so fast in the lower gears I installed a red line alarm to keep from hitting the limiter constantly. You won't have that problem in a car with a 6000 rpm VTEC engagement.

-- Chuck

 

Seems like the original questions have been answered thoroughly, but I'll add the following: I'm not wild about the DBW in my 2008 Civic Si Mugen. It rev hangs. At low RPMs in different situations (especially neutral), sharp throttle inputs are delayed. And it feels slightly more artificial. (Does the 2006+ S2000 DBW act the same?) My cable throttle AP1, on the other hand, feels so mechanical and raw in a good way.

 

Watch the tachometer to see the rewarding AP1 experience when driven properly. You don’t get that with an F22C.

 

Based on the information you've provided, the DBW models definitely sound like the right S2K configuration for you given the fact that they are far more tuner-friendy. In addition, you can always play around with things like the suspension, sway bars, wheel/tire combinations, etc. if you find that you're unhappy with the car's handling. Since the DBW apparently tend to run a bit lean, if it was me buying one of these cars then I'd want to make sure that the valves had been checked and properly adjusted before I handed my money over. But I would only be concerned about this prior to my purchase as I would have control over how often I wanted to keep tabs on the valves after taking ownership of the car at which point it would strike me as a non-issue.

I own an '05 car and am incredibly happy with it — I have absolutely no plans of getting rid of it. That said, if I were offered the opportunity to drive either a stock AP1 or a tuned AP2 at some point down the road, I'd jump at the chance to drive the AP1 with the F20C engine.

 

The 2006+ engines (DBW) are notorious for tight valves, especially the exhaust. Valve adjustment is a 90 minute job on a Saturday morning (including double checking and refilling your coffee cup). Tools are like 20 bucks and new gaskets another $20. Several photo essays and videos here. Put the car on jackstands to save your back. Not something I'd worry about pre-buying a low mileage car.

-- Chuck

 

VSA can be disabled easily enough with a button press, but the DBW does not compare to a TC. The pedal will feel more dead, throttle response is slower, and rev matching requires far more pedal english. As far as tuning an pre-06 car, there are drop in options now that will now give you just as much tunability. Doctronics is an affordable K-series ECU based option that retains OBD2 and if you feel like breaking the bank for a name, there are drop-in K-Pro solutions that don't require all of the extra parts traditionally associated with that option.

Personally, having driven an AP1 and AP2 back to back multiple times, the extra revs does nothing for me and flywheel weight difference is negligible if you know how to shift.

FYI:
The stock AP2 fuel cut is 8200, not the 8000 and 8400 (most commonly done in AP2 tuned solutions) numbers that are being tossed out. The AP1 stock fuel cut is a thousand higher (9200).
I have never noticed the CDV in my own car and for any 06+ I've driven, the DBW was a bigger problem than anything the CDV might be doing. It's an easy solution if you don't like it, so really shouldn't be a concern unless classing for a competitive event makes it one.
The tuning of the AP2 suspension is not massive understeer (drive a new Charger if you want to see what that feels like), and is something tunable with OEM stabilizer bars if you want a quick change to the balance.
Any tuning solution is not going to do much of anything for you without supporting mods to intake and exhaust; tuning even with the supporting mods in any model is not going to be a giant difference outside of the lowered VTEC engagement as Honda squeezed ~90% of the power out of the factory long block.

My suggestion would be to drive all 3 variants (if you can) and decide which you enjoy most. Any of the 3 can be made to be competitive if that is your final goal at some point, and if it is strictly a street car that will be left mostly stock, then the personal preference of individual OEM setups will be the biggest determination.

 

Thanks for the input everyone. As long as the VSA can be completely disabled and DBW change is negligible, I much rather the added torque and ease of tune of the AP2v2. I just wasn't sure if there are less obvious downsides to the systems or if the VSA maintained some sort of background interference even with the button 'off'.

Although the thread has diverged a bit, I will comment that I think the 500 rpm lower redline (after tune) of the AP2v2 is worth the extra torque and gains to be had in the midrange where a majority of the driving experience is to be had. Also, I wouldn't call the extra 30+ ft-lbs from 5000-6000 of at tuned AP2v2 vs. AP1 negligible by any means. Then, there is the improvement in gearing for the AP2 as well. I do really appreciate the higher revving F20 and miss the 8900 redline I had in my K20 though. It also kind of annoys me that the AP2 tach won't show anything above 8k, but this car won't be about absolute max acceleration or 1/4 mile racing for me anyway. I've got other ways to enjoy a high revving Honda as well as experience aggressive launches and max accel 1/4 mile type of stuff. I do plan to address the AP2's flywheel and clutch delay at some point as well.

Not to mention- it was never really about a stock AP1 vs. stock AP2 for me. My decision is more about a supercharged AP1 vs. flashed AP2v2. They are both about the same price used (albeit the AP1s have more miles). I think the collectability and resale of the flashed AP2v2 option is more important to me than the total power of a s/c'd AP1. I can always s/c an AP2v2 if want as well.

 

BTW,
AP1 8800rpm rev limiter , fuel cut off 9000rpm.

AP2 8000 rev limiter, fuel cut off 8200rpm.

I love an 06+ AP2 with a simple test pipe and tune. It really transforms the car for the better, yet still feels like OEM, and is reversible. The benefits are a higher redline, lower vtec engagement, significantly more usable torque/power in the lower rpms, better throttle response, not to mention the styling. Market prices are a bit higher though, so that is something to consider.