Muz - no offense was intended and I apologize for ruffling any feathers. I retract my comments - you don't have a gazillion threads. I own several sponsor's products - including yours. I am also very grateful for all the hard work you guys have put in to create great products for this car. Again, I didn't mean to "single anyone sponsor" out.

Larry

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mikey
[B]I think they're totally appropriate when in the Group Buys and For Sale forum.

 

This seems like a "housekeeping" detail about board organization. It is either a good idea or not. I don't think it is helpful to confuse the concept with personalization. Does the idea have merit and solve a "problem?" Yes, I think.

Will it eliminate personal dislikes about vendors and sales strategies? No, I think.

Is Beig's idea about ethical disclosure a good one? Yes, I think.

 

Problem is Bieg, it that for owners who start out developing things for their own cars then decide to make them available to others, there's a fine line between product promotion and sharing of ideas. Take the powder coating of the valve cover. I did it because I wanted to do it for my own car. Once I saw the results, I though, why not offer it to others? I could have stopped there. If we're lucky, ten people might to this, and it involves a lot of work on our end -- endless trips to the powdercoater and post office, possible returns, shipping screw ups, etc., etc. Frankly, the trouble of running the GB in pure economic terms doesn't make it worthwhile or sensible, and a rationale person, say my accountant, would probably tell me that I was a fool for doing it. But I find other rewards in it, and that's enough. To then have people classify this as crass commercialism is amusing and ironic , but I understand how people who don't know me or know anything about us could come to that conclusion. So be it, too bad, but there's nothing we can do about what people may conclude.

Some of the board sponsors are owners like me, who make and sell things for the car mostly because we like to do it and make some modest profits. But I'd never do it for the money alone, and the love of the car and participation in the community, along with the sheer fun of taking ideas and making them work (which I did with my other cars long before the Internet existed), are the motivaitonal mix. No one should be deceived into thinking that we are some corporate automotive accessory juggernauts living in the lap of luxury off of our S2000 business. Hardly. Fortunately I make my real living off a consulting business that has nothing to do with cars. If I had to live off the S2000 business, I'd wouldn't be able to own the car and I'd probably be collecting food stamps.

But I do think we need to segment some of the sponsors promotional posts. The question for us who own the car and are always thinking of these we'd like to modify or improve is this: What's an idea and what's a product? Frankly, there are times when I don't know.

 

And from the purely "end user" perspective of this particular owner -- I don't care. If you start out with something as an idea, and at some point it becomes a product -- great, I have a chance to buy it or not. At the time it _is_ a product, please post GB's, promos, etc., in your new forum and I'll be by to see what's up. But while you're still trying to decide what it is, feel free to talk about it here. Garner ideas, create a dialog. Yes, it's "promotional", but if you don't yet have it as a product, and don't honestly know if you ever will, then I see nothing wrong. You ARE an owner and entitled and encouraged to talk about your car and what you want to do with it just as much as any other owner. Plus, you're a sponsor, paying for the privilege, so I see no beef what so ever. Especially since the input of other owners may well lead to a better product for all of us.
Now, speaking of speculative products -- what ever happened to the tonneau cover idea? Any chance it will see the light of day?

 

The clutter doesn't bother me Rick, it's not like members are being forced to click on advertisments or posts.

 

Rick as I said before I have no problem with any of this,...I was just wondering why YOU do. The forum rules allow sponsors to promote their products in any of the forums.

What I don't like are owners who get free parts and such posing as unbiased satisfied consumers to stir up demand for certain products. It is fine as long as it is clear to everyone, old members and new alike that the person is "sponsored". It is those who don't disclose this information that bother me.

I like that you and others here request input in the development of new products for our cars. IMHO that is one of the coolest things about this board. Did you ever check out those Jim Clark driving gloves from Griot's Garage? Will you be making gloves?

 

O.T. here but.....
Bieg, will we ever get a chance to meet up with you? your name came up at our little gathering this weekend(all positive ) https://www.s2ki.com/forums/showthread.php?...&threadid=42212

 

Yeah I bet.

In answer to your question,...probably never. In case you have not noticed I am pretty much anti-social.

Your meet looked pretty awesome though. Lots of fine cars and people.

 

Bieg,

Yes, I did look at the gloves. The problem is finding someone to make them at a decent price and finding the time to do it all.

CRussel,

The tonneau cover was being developed by Luder94 and we were going to sell it for him, but he had problems with the people who were going to make it. Several threads on the topic were recently active, and Luder94 has indicated his intention to move forward.