I consider blowing to go faster on the street and at the track (non-stock classes). Show me an honest 330 HP from a "reliable" NA F20C and I'll reconsider.

Drive-line mods are a given to me. I assume up to $4K in clutch, diff, and half-shaft work is reasonable. I'd weigh the whole package against a convertible Z06 vette though.

As far as the ethics of FI, I look at it this way, our engines are best described as fuel-air pumps. Pump more mixture, get more power. If Honda considers it "un-ethical" to use turbos then I guess they should stick to a single intake and exhaust valve per cylinder then eh? And VTEC is just flat-out cheating. I mean, what's so sacred about NA design?

If you're into our torque curve that's a different story. I respect that. I want a driveable car too so Supra-like 1000 HP is not reasonable or desired. Our flat torque curve is a wonder to behold. It just needs to be 25% higher, on average, to satisfy my juvenile need for speed.

Don't get me started on the purity of design of our S2K's. Just how pure is our hot air intake? How about our highly enriched ECU? So fixing these items would be "impure"? Call me tainted.

 

I have no intentions of adding FI to my car.

I have had a brief test drive of one with a Comptech and driven with FI cars on the street and track. I do not deny there is a real increase in power but feel it is added to the curve in such a way that will not provide major benefit (especially for the cost) in the way I use the car. The primary emphasis of my mods has been fattening the torque curve to provide greater mid-range flexibility on the street and track (road course), finding that my car does in fact perform with the FI cars under the conditions I care about.

The additional power from FI clearly puts demands upon the drive train that it is not designed to handle, so longevity of those components would be a concern for me. I also know it can be a tough road sorting out major modifications to any car.

I will not criticize those that are striving for a low ET, straight-line win, or a record dyno number. Each will get satisfaction from their investment in their own way.

 

Have I done it? No

Do I want to do it? Yes.

Why haven't I? That's a bit more complicated, but I suppose it boild down to warranty, longevity, and money.

I would like more torque in the lower end of the band since I'm pretty happy with things on the upper end. From what I've seen, turbo seems to be a better choice over supercharger for that type of application. I would like help in working on such a project, as I have never done anything more complicated than changing a spark plug. However, I would like to get my hands dirty and understand everything that's done. I'm not out to win at the track, or to have the biggest HP monster out there...I just want to fix what I consider a minor problem with the car.

The warranty issue certainly holds me back, as Michelle is my daily driver, and I can't afford to be without her for more than a day or so if something goes wrong (no significant other to drag my ass around, either).

And, of course, I'm choosing to spend my money elsewhere at the moment...the stock market is too prime a target NOT to throw money at it for a long-term investment. Aaaaaand I'd also like to have the car paid off before I throw more money at her

My 2 cents worth....

 

I've had two tickets in as many years. My, God, what would it be like if I had a SC. I can get into enough trouble without the help of FI, thank you very much!

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ChrisD
[B] Why value S. Honda's desire to create this engine as it is?

 

i am more of a N/A person i would rather spend money on cams adn other stuff instead of a S/C

 

N/A for now, and probably for the life of my S2000. I try not to look at any modification as good or bad in itself, but rather, does it help you achieve the goals for what I want to do with the car?

If the goal is to have a unique and cool-looking 11 second convertible, then a turbo'd S2000 may be the way to go. At this point that also makes you a pioneer, and one that gets to deal with the joys of life on the frontier of tuning.

What if the goal is to be competitive in some sort of autocross or track racing? Unfortunately, the types classes that allow FI usually necessitate all sorts of uncompromising chassis and suspension mods. To make a turbocharged S2000 competitive in such a class (say SCCA Solo II's Mod class) would require some doing. Besides a complete engine rebuild with new rods, pistons, etc. the chassis would have to be stripped down to the bare metal, carbon-fiber or plastic body panels, suspension replaced with fully adjustable rod-ended pieces, full roll cage, race seats. Bye bye to the dash, heater, AC, side windows, top, pretty much everything except the bare shell and drivetrain. If the goal is a fully built demon of a race car, then turbocharging may also be the way to go.

If the goal is to build something that gets down the 1/4 mile as fast as possible, the S2K is not the best place to start. As good as the S2000's chassis and suspension is, if drag racing is your ultimate goal and you're going turbo, you're simply better off with an automatic transmission and a beefy live-axle rear. Poor old Soichiro's going to turn in his grave when, in an attempt to bust into the 9's, somebody wedges a TH400 and a 9" Ford in their S2k! Get a Camaro or a turbo Regal or something...

Personally I'd rather pay my mod money to get more of what the S2K already is - a high-revving 4 wheeled sportbike. How about somebody coming out with a pneumatic or electromagnetic valve actuation system that, besides providing complete computer control of lift, timing, and duration, raises redline to 14,000 RPM? Now THAT would be sweet!
(and would probably cost more than another S2000)

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by TimTheFoolMan
[B]... However, the larger issue is that I have a really strong desire to keep this car bone stock. Let me explain.

Growing up, my next door neighbor had a '63 Corvette with a 327 (which would lift the front tires off the ground in 1st gear), and a '67 with a 427 and 3 deuces. He kept both cars completely stock, and over the years, I learned to appreciate the beauty of what the early Corvette engineers had created. Had he cammed it, thrown on fat tires or aftermarket wheels, it would have destroyed (or at least dramatically altered) the incredible vision those talented boys at Chevy had formed into fiberglass.

Clearly, it's too early to tell if the S2000 will ever be considered a classic as both of those cars are now, but I remain just as blown away (if you'll excuse the expression in the context of this thread) with the whole package as I was when I saw the first spy photos in Automobile Magazine back in '99. If I mod the car in any way, it will be to add only a pre-lube system to give it as much life and longetivity as possible. In every other way, I remain satisfied with the compromises our friends at Honda made to bring this car to the market.

Everyone else can mod theirs all they want, and I'll appreciate what they do, whether it's for Autocrossing or just for the street. However, it reminds me of when I wanted to toss a V8 into a 1600cc Pinto a few years ago, and a buddy said, "Tim, why don't you just buy something that was DESIGNED to be a fast car instead?" I took his advice, and bought the Z28... and then the RX7... and then the Probe GT...

 

Please don't turn this into a mod/no mod thread. That wasn't the intention or purpose of this thread. Let's leave the "collectibility" of the S2000 for another debate....that, however, has been done to death. Please stay on topic...

 

Whew, this thread is turning into a bit of a doozy huh?

Well, my only real comments I think have already been addressed by a couple people. Namely, the one about the Wright House "falling water"(?). Namely, if I had a one of a kind car, sure. But worst comes to worst and the s2k becomes a pile of steaming scrap metal, the insurance company is always there to buy me another one, bone stock.

As far as the reliability and drivetrain issues - this is just something that we'll have to find out over time. I doubt anyone would argue that the lifetime of the vehicle is NOT lessened with a turbo (or even an s/c) setup. If you treat your car well though, change the oil often, don't rag on it 24/7, and don't overboost constantly, there is no reason this car should not last very long. Derryck had his turbo for what, 10k miles? Although that is a very short amount of time, we have yet to see anyone's engine FAIL because of the turbo. So I guess all we can do in the meantime is wait around for my (or cjb's) engine to blow up, right? Like derryck said, part of being a pioneer is dealing with the indians. In the meantime though, I will enjoy the ride (no pun intended) and keep you all informed as best I can. It's my belief that I can contribute something to the community and push back that 'frontier' by telling everyone else of my issues. Wouldn't this board be really great if we could get some of the spoon and mugen engineers (who worked on the s2200) to contribute their findings here? I'm no mugen or spoon race driver, but hopefully my info can be useful to someone.

As far as other modifications go, yes, I am considering a load of bottom end work. Chromoly crower rods, Forged aluminum JE pistons, and a sleeved block. Cams, cam gears, crankshaft will stay stock. Pistons and head gasket will be designed for a 9 to 1 compression ratio. A full engine management kit (AEM, perhaps) is looking really nice. Is this cheap? Hell no. Can't you get enough fricking speed, ChrisD? It's a huge step, but for me, it's the logical next step in the progression of power.

You might ask why I'm going with an application that clearly wasn't designed for boost. The challenge is one factor, but being able to squeeze more power out of this engine is another. Although there is much talk about going the n/a route for more power as well, unfortunately, there just is not that much product out there on the market to prove it. I don't see higher life s2k cams, increased compression s2k pistons, so on and so forth. So as far as the question "why not go N/A" is concerned, I guess it was a somewhat subjective choice.

And to Bieg, I know you are trying to keep it clean and just make your opinions known, but when you use certain language you imply otherwise. "Clean, un-molested stock cars" (implying that we molest our cars?), "BTW there is nothing original about taking out your checkbook and buying parts to bolt on your car." (the converse here is obvious. I do believe there is something special about this work, espescially when no one else has done it before), "I think one of the problems with the S2000 is that too many people can afford it and because they can they have that "import scene" mentality and treat it like the "ultimate Civic"." (I know what you mean by this, but it does come off as somewhat condescending). I don't say things like "N/A car owners are idjits" or veil them in other ways, maybe you could do the same?