Why is it that there are so many...
Joined: Jan 2001
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From: Mish-she-gan
[QUOTE]Originally posted by bebahru
[B]Maybe -- just maybe we just might be getting somewhere in this discussion --- I'm no racer -- the rear end of my S2000 lost it doing 55mph in a 70mph curve (damp pavement) -- the car instantly spun 300 degrees into a concrete bridge retaining wall --
it happened so quickly it still amazes me 3.5 months later.
[B]Maybe -- just maybe we just might be getting somewhere in this discussion --- I'm no racer -- the rear end of my S2000 lost it doing 55mph in a 70mph curve (damp pavement) -- the car instantly spun 300 degrees into a concrete bridge retaining wall --
it happened so quickly it still amazes me 3.5 months later.
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From: The BadLands
dlq04, what's up buddy! 
Let's lighten up here just a little. Hey, you realize that nothing would happen if we didn't get in the car and drive it right? Well then wouldn't you have to agree that the car reacts to our input? So wouldn't you also agree that at higher speeds our reactions become more magnified? A lot of the time it's because of our under reaction or over reaction. Knowing the limits of the car is a very important aspect in particular conditions. All we can do sometimes is react to certain outputs of the vehicle. Steve Millen is a very careful driver that has learned those limits and knows specifically how to use them for maximum performance.
I don't think anyone here has pointed a finger at anyone in particular. I believe that we have identified that 99% of all accidents are caused by driver error. Rather it is because of external conditions or driver input. I admit that even though I have probably more on the road training and experience in high speed maneuvering than most here, I still don't know everything. So in certain circumstances I still don't know how to react. Practice is a wonderful tool so if we aren't doing so regularly than we aren't proficient.
Now let's factor in an automobile like the S 2000. People aren't familiar with it's handling characteristics. Wouldn't it be possible to misjudge our input and cause inadvertent spins? I think that's probably true in 90% of the situations which occur with the S 2000. Unfamiliarity with the ability of the car and your own skills is a pretty volatile combination. Inexperience at speed is a precursor to an accident no matter how you look at it.
I don't think Bieg is saying that he's the best there every was. On the contrary, I think that maybe he's just saying that there is no replacement for practical experience. Let's don't get into a pissing contest over whose a better driver and let our testosterone take over. This is a good discussion let's keep it that way. I think Bieg would like to keep it that way also.
Let's lighten up here just a little. Hey, you realize that nothing would happen if we didn't get in the car and drive it right? Well then wouldn't you have to agree that the car reacts to our input? So wouldn't you also agree that at higher speeds our reactions become more magnified? A lot of the time it's because of our under reaction or over reaction. Knowing the limits of the car is a very important aspect in particular conditions. All we can do sometimes is react to certain outputs of the vehicle. Steve Millen is a very careful driver that has learned those limits and knows specifically how to use them for maximum performance.I don't think anyone here has pointed a finger at anyone in particular. I believe that we have identified that 99% of all accidents are caused by driver error. Rather it is because of external conditions or driver input. I admit that even though I have probably more on the road training and experience in high speed maneuvering than most here, I still don't know everything. So in certain circumstances I still don't know how to react. Practice is a wonderful tool so if we aren't doing so regularly than we aren't proficient.
Now let's factor in an automobile like the S 2000. People aren't familiar with it's handling characteristics. Wouldn't it be possible to misjudge our input and cause inadvertent spins? I think that's probably true in 90% of the situations which occur with the S 2000. Unfamiliarity with the ability of the car and your own skills is a pretty volatile combination. Inexperience at speed is a precursor to an accident no matter how you look at it.
I don't think Bieg is saying that he's the best there every was. On the contrary, I think that maybe he's just saying that there is no replacement for practical experience. Let's don't get into a pissing contest over whose a better driver and let our testosterone take over. This is a good discussion let's keep it that way. I think Bieg would like to keep it that way also.
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From: :spam:u
The S2000 is of course no slouch in the handling department but it isn't like the "can do no wrong" TT. Nail the brakes mid corner and the back end comes around. Nail the gas and ditto. Hop off the gas (also know as chickening out) and, you guessed it, oversteer. Even in slow corners you can feel the nose tuck in when backing out of the throttle. Is all this dangerous? Well I guess it depends on your driving experience and skill. To the able sport driver it is one of the most responsive and entertaining chassis in production. The Audi is benign and numb by comparison but far less demanding. If you aren't the type of driver that wants to, or can, steer a car with the throttle I would recommend driving school or staying away.
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From: paragould
obviously we have two mind sets -- a.) it's always the driver's fault -- the equipment is perfect and needs no further improvement -- God himself/herself created the S2000 b.) it's a great car, but we need help with the quirky rear end -- we would like to have Honda's cooperation --
remember, that most drivers are not racers ... that may be hard for the motorheads to understand, but it is true.
I love the car -- even after the spin out -- but it still has the potential to spin again and that troubles me--- that's after installing a Digrappa X brace, a Muz supplied shock tower brace and changing to SO-3s (since the weather here is wet) --
I am now exploring the idea of using SO 3 245s for the rear --
the SO 3 225's are more quirky than the SO 2 OEMs.
remember, that most drivers are not racers ... that may be hard for the motorheads to understand, but it is true.
I love the car -- even after the spin out -- but it still has the potential to spin again and that troubles me--- that's after installing a Digrappa X brace, a Muz supplied shock tower brace and changing to SO-3s (since the weather here is wet) --
I am now exploring the idea of using SO 3 245s for the rear --
the SO 3 225's are more quirky than the SO 2 OEMs.
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From: :spam:u
[QUOTE]Originally posted by bebahru
[B]
I love the car -- even after the spin out -- but it still has the potential to spin again and that troubles me--- that's after installing a Digrappa X brace, a Muz supplied shock tower brace and changing to SO-3s (since the weather here is wet) --
I am now exploring the idea of using SO 3 245s for the rear --
[B]
I love the car -- even after the spin out -- but it still has the potential to spin again and that troubles me--- that's after installing a Digrappa X brace, a Muz supplied shock tower brace and changing to SO-3s (since the weather here is wet) --
I am now exploring the idea of using SO 3 245s for the rear --
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From: Delray Beach, FL
Originally posted by Bieg
You are like the nearsighted photographer who refuses to wear glasses when he focuses his camera blaming his equipment when his pictures come out blurry.
You are like the nearsighted photographer who refuses to wear glasses when he focuses his camera blaming his equipment when his pictures come out blurry.
Stick to things you know about...
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From: paragould
If this disucssion is to get us anywhere we need to discuss solutions/improvements both to the car and to our driving skills rather than getting into rock throwing, which seems to be common lately.