[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bieg
[B]As you say putting tires that break loose at slower speeds will feel like they are giving more feedback but in reality they are just spreading about the same amount of feedback over a longer period of time because you are going slower.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by jschmidt
[B]

I'd rethink this mid-engine argument too. Just because the weight is between the tires, doesn't mean that the polar moment is centered in the car. Do a little reading on this. Our car doesn't nearly rotate on its center, IMHO.

 

Perry,

I think this thread is becoming a bit more interesting now because the majority of the crowd who are interested in dynamic discussion and debates woke up today. I merely posted too late last night and some bored member had nothing better to say than give me a 1 star for the thread. Hehe.



ALL,

Now that we've discovered the truth... let me summarize...

Basically it comes down to this.. a big portion of the owners here are used to front wheel drive front engine cars with less hp, therefore they are less prone to get out of wack. Now, give them a light mid-engined roadster, rear wheel drive, with tons of power and tires that work best in good weather, come rain and heavy puddles, you get wrecks and crashes. Partially driver error, partially vehicle speed not matched to the driving conditions. That said, I did not forget that there are also many owners here who come from rwd cars.

Having said that, I'd like to point this thread at a slightly different angle... taking on a new perspective.

If the SO2s are the culprit of high speed over water, hydroplaning, and if the suspension setup is not predictable for the "average" driver who hasn't spent much time on the track or autocross courses, then what are the few ways or things that can be done to the car to make it a bit more predictable. Any ideas? I've heard X brace mentioned earlier. I personally think a more multi purpose tire will fit the bill, rather than the S02s that rock in dry but hydroplane in puddles. Any ideas?

Any suspension, or vehicle dynamics engineers, out there, gurus, can lend a mind?

Tks,
Jimmy

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jimmy325
[B]If the SO2s are the culprit of high speed over water, hydroplaning, and if the suspension setup is not predictable for the "average" driver who hasn't spent much time on the track or autocross courses, then what are the few ways or things that can be done to the car to make it a bit more predictable.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bieg
[B]Does not really matter if the engine is front mounted or rear mounted (though I prefer a front mounted engine) the closer the weight is to the center of the car the faster it will spin.

 

because people are driving way to fast around tight turns in bad weather....people don't spin out and slam up against a wall by doing 55mphs on a regular highway...i know in my cases i was pushing the car very hard when i lost control and crashed...

 

Iagree that most are due to drivers pushing too hard. I lost the back end really pushing her for the first time. Luckily, I recovered nicely and didn't crash. However, I am older and have driven rear wheel drive cars earlier on in life, even in snow. Used to go up hills others couldn't just to piss them off.
That said, I also slow down in bad weather. I know the cars limits and don't try to mess with mother nature.

Have fun, but be aware that when you push the envelope, at some point you are going to lose it. Don't blame the car. It's just doing what you told it to do.

 

It's human nature to look for excuses when we've ballsed up. Of course it's possible to have a genuine, unavoidable accident, Sondra's deer ,Cortez's dog were probably both that, but we know in our hearts surely that almost ALL accidents are due to driver error on someone's part, either a single or series of definable errors, or simply just going too fast in any given set of conditions.

The only people likely to experience driving this car anywhere near it's limit IMHO are those who practise doiung so regularly on the track. I suspect they would be the first to admit that it is their personal limits which are reached long before they reach the limits of the car. Anyone who thinks they can drive this car at it's limits anywhere, let alone on the highway is either very talented and should be turning pro, or is on such an ego trip and so self-deluded that nothing will change their outlook except of course, the inevitable. When that happens and they post we're unlikely to hear "Hey guys I really ballsed up!. (Some have!) More likely some reason felt to be a genuine cause, or another diatribe on the instability and poor handling of the car.

I think this is a great thread which we could all do well to take to heart. The S2000 is a fantastic car pushing very close to Supercar performance, but very capable of making large holes in our membership at regular intervals

 

VTECnDaRed1,

Tks for the input, however I think you missed my point, or question.

I was refering to alternatives in setting up the car, not driving habits as I've already said "Driver error is one of the culprits, identified, toss it, let's move on, anyone have alternatives to solving this issue and problems other than skills?"

Jimmy

 

Having wrecked my S2000, I attributed it to hydro-planing. Was not over accelerating at the time. It was a driving rain storm on a sloped highway with high wind gusts. I was definitely going too fast for the conditions at 65 mph in this car (speed limit was 70). A Miata I was following left me in the dust and I let him go prior to wrecking. I previously owned a Miata that handled great in the rain.

I had the S2000 for 6 months prior to the accident and had auto-crossed in it, so I did have some limited experience driving it. I now have S03s on the rear and seem to have better control on wet surfaces. I do feel the difference in handling on dry surfaces with the S03s, but am glad they are there in the rain.

I am more careful in the rain now and would not trade this car for any other make. Plenty of power below v-tech unless you are racing and a joy over v-tech. Can't speak for the other accidents, but I will take my chances handling this car over any others in all but the wettest conditions even after my guffaw.

Pete