My wife went to drive our 2000 S2k to work and the check engine light was on. The car started but appeared to have a slight roughness to the idle (it was also cold). I made her take a cab to work and later we took the car to our dealer. They called to advise that they had to "pull the engine" and that they feared the issue was one of "abuse" which would not be covered under our warranty.

They called later to advise that it was clearly a case of "abuse". I asked what constituted "abuse" and was advised that is was most likely over-revving the engine.

The car has never been raced and, to my knowledge, never been over 7,500 RPM. The car was carefully broken in. The car has been routinely serviced by the dealership where it was purchased. My wife drives it 15 miles per weekday on surface streets. The only time it even approaches the 7,500 rpm is pulling onto the freeway.

I have looked through the various threads and I have noted some incidents where a missed downshift appears to have caused an over-rev condition. I have also noted comments about a rev limiter. Can someone please step in here and advise me of what I may be up against in this matter.

Oh yeah, we purchased an extended warranty but it sounds like the dealership is already posturing themselves to wriggle around that.

Kelly Duke

 

I can't give you a lot of advice, but I'd at least start by asking the dealer about the specific reasons why they are claiming abuse. Bent valves? Low oil? Does it happen to be in the #4 cylinder? Something else?

For the "rev-limiter" it is only a fuel cutoff. That is, it will stop the flow of fuel if you exceed the RPM limit. It will not however, stop or slow an engine that has already exceeded the maximum RPM, which is what may happen in a missed downshift situation.

 

Dave Z.

Further research has confirmed that the rev limiter would only have been of benefit on acceleration. I have also noted two other issues that seem to have surfaced but they normally became apparent much earlier (1,000 to 7,000 miles). One is a rare occurance of flawed, i.e., porous castings and the other is improper piston/cylinder clearance causing rocking of the piston skirt. The second causes heat build up and lubrication issues.

I would guess that the second would only show scoring on the lower half of the cylinder and if there is scoring on the upper half it would be attributed to the alledged "abuse". The typical over-rev result seems to be that the valves can't get out of the piston's way fast enough (or vice versa) and contact is made, things get bent, metal particles probably get disloged, etc.

It will be our word against theirs regarding hard driving so the issue still remains as to whether AHM will repair this on warranty. There are some posts that indicate they have but some were one-time courtesy repairs as opposed to true warranty work. As a first time Honda buyer, I don't know what to expect.

I am now off to search for TSBs and other internal AHM correspondence that may address the issue. If anyone has any leads in this regard, please weigh in.

K F Duke

 

i would contact your dealers AHM representative and have a few words with him/her. Sometimes these things are left to the dealers opinion. If you get honda involved, they can sned someone to inspet the damage and verify the techs findings or determine an actual part failure. Before any work gets done I would also get a second opinion.

 

At the present time the car is at the dealership, in the shop, and opened up for the autopsy. The dealer gave us an AHM number to call but I want to see the situation myself. So far they are quoting a low number but I have not had a chance to discuss with them what it the number covers. It does not sound like a short block so we either caught it in time before the damage got worse or it was not that damaged in the first place.

Or he was off by a decimal point.

Thanks for the input.

K. F. Duke

 

This whole thing reeks of classic Honda tech work.

I've owned Hondas all my life, and although they're great cars, Honda service representatives are crooks. This may not count for much, but I've never seen you post threads of you racing your car, and if the amount you drive your car is just back and forth to work, 15 miles per way, on surface streets....that's HARDLY a reason for abuse.

The only possibility might be low oil, but you'd be experiencing other things that'd clue you that your oil was low.

Also, various TSB's have been reported on the S2000. Make sure you're excluded.

Furthermore, it could even be a loose fuse, which costs less than A DOLLAR to repair. Hopefully they won't shaft you for $400.

In cold weather, it's normal for the idle to seem a little 'rough' until the car warms up properly.

Finally, let the dealer check a fuel-relay switch that controls fuel to your car (very inexpensive piece). If that is damaged, you will get the 'rough idle' symptom you described.

Hope that helped.

 

I think you are getting your self in trouble by saying all Honda servce employees are crooks. In fact I find it offensive. I am and know quite a few Honda master technicians and line technicians that go out of their way to service customers fully. i am not saying that the situation here is not shady, it sounds like it is. But to make a general statement that isnt going to help this gentleman solve his woes is dumb. he obviously has a valid complaint and if he came here for support and help he is not geting it with that statement. Im sorry but I think that saying stuff like that on an open and public forum is asking for trouble.

 

Kelly - From your report on the use of your car, it would be surprising that the car was abused. Are you aware of any situation in which you or any driver of the car missed a downshift and over-revved the engine? If not, the burden should be on your dealer to justify their claim of abuse. What kind of damage are they reporting to you?

There have been many instinces in this forum of S2000 owners taking their cars to the dealer with serious engine problems, being told it wasn't going to be covered under warrantee, but with persistence had the repair done under warrantee. It sounds like you're being reasonable about this, and I recommend that you continue to firmly and politely insist that the car was not abused and that you expect no less than a warrantee repair. Keep notes on conversations with the dealer and AHM employees and continue up the AHM food chain until you are satisfied with the outcome.

Fullthrottle is correct. There are a lot of excellent Honda techs out there.

Good luck and let us know how this works out.

 

The dealers get paid for the warranty work, so I don't know what their problem is.

However, if they don't fix your car for free, then you should take it to another dealer or start calling AHM immediately. Try their customer relations line then move up the chain of command. If all else fair tow it to Torrance and drop it on their doorstep!

Regardless, it sounds to me like its a manufacturing defect. Just keep insisting all repairs be made for free, and follow up all your calls with more calls if things aren't going your way.

No comment on how my S2000 is driven , but I used to take my Prelude SH up to 8k RPM (fuel cutoff) everyday and speedshift to second. I NEVER EVER had a problem with this car.

 

I will not be able to see the car until Monday but I have been told that there is bent valve damage in cylinders 2 and 3. It does not appear that the cylinder walls are scored. They did not mention the valve guides or the tops of the pistons which I assumed would also be damaged if the valves managed to strike the pistons.

We know it could not be over-reved on acceleration. To be honest, I don't necessarily look at the tach while decelerating and down-shifting. However, having said that, I also know what the car sounds like at 7,500 and I think I would know if a missed down-shift had sent the rpms up to 9,000.

I am going back to search for any threads about VTEC failures, timing belt/chain failures, timing-belt idler adjusments etc.

Kelly